A commenter on DeafDC.com named, “s f” recently expressed his or her opinion about DeafDC in Allison Kaftan’s Blog, “Presto Reducto! What Protest?“:
I tell myself this DeafDC blog is populated almost wholly by socially underdeveloped HoH nerds who are thus most susceptible to barbs like that elf cartoon. To everyone here who still go, “I worry about the protests for what their legacy might do to me,” I say to them: Toughen up. Especially in the face of satire; examination is necessary, and the more unforgiving the better. (Bold mine)
While s f’s latter part of his or her comment has some truth to it, I will examine the first part of his comment, which may be a perception held by many towards DeafDC.com. The observation held by s f, and probably many others, is that the entire list of DeafDC Bloggers, including Guest Bloggers and our countless deaf and hard of hearing commenters are, “socially underdeveloped HoH nerds.”
Some protesters and those who support the protest may view DeafDC and most, if not all of the DeafDC Bloggers, as “anti-protest”, “pro-Jane Fernandes”, “against deaf culture”, “not mentally deaf”, “audists”, and the list goes on and on. You get the idea and it’s unfortunate. While some may think that DeafDC Blogs during the protest were mostly critical of the protesters, it was not the intention of DeafDC to present one side more than the other. Our Bloggers are free to Blog about whatever they want, and we readily accepted many of the Guest Blogs submitted to us which met our criteria. At times, we even pursued Guest Blogs from all sides to help us understand the unique issues confronting Gallaudet and the deaf and hard of hearing community.
It’s possible that some of the protesters saw DeafDC’s attempts to openly discuss and examine issues, such as those that were raised during the protest, from both sides of the coin as “anti-protest”. The expectation, it appears, is that anyone deaf must fall in line with the group that has the “righteous” and “just” objective in an “us” versus “them” battle for the heart and soul of the community. And if anyone did not wholeheartedly agree with the protesters, they are “not deaf enough.”
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Social awkwardness is endemic among everybody and doesn’t necessarily make someone into a nerd. I find that s f’s labels to be thoughtless, tasteless, and rather immature.
There are different people out there who don’t share your point of view. Grow up and accept it and you’ll be better off.
As for DeafDC itself, well, I enjoy the discussions I find here as well as the occasional thought-provoking blogs by different authors. This is a very different atmosphere than most other blogs who appear to have a “my way or the highway” philosophy. I prefer the devil’s advocate discussions which are often found here rather than the groupthink that is so frequently found elsewhere.
Another thing differentiates DeafDC from other blogs is the relatively high level use of English around here. The reason why you don’t have a lot of ASL bloggers might be because they prefer vlogging or they just don’t feel comfortable here.
Just some thoughts.
If you’re audist, well, a lot of folks are audist. It’s getting to the point where I’m going to walk on Gallaudet campus with a black T-Shirt saying out loud “AUDIST”.
One final thought — just because someone doesn’t agree with YOUR perspectives on what the D/deaf community needs doesn’t make them into audists or “not deaf enough.” This is not a monolithic group where one size fits all.
Here’s a way to spot an Audist:
Kick em in the groin and if they scream, you shall then point at em and yell “AUDIST!!!”
if they start making a “hang loose” hand sign, swirl around the nose, go “ooo” with the lips, and make nary a sound, you call em “Socially proud.”
howzzat? =)
dang it, why do i always forget the notification?
Excellent written communication skill can separate you from the pack.
WAD,
I don’t agree with your statement but that is for another Blog.
I look forward to THAT blog.
Yes, I’d like to comment on that one. It fascinates me how fluency in English is perceived by people as a cultural yardstick (particulary in America, which, ironically is one of the countries that are the LEAST accepting of different languages in the world. The average european is biligual).
Well, if you go to or work in France, you are expected to speak French. No?
I see it as people who come here are comfortable with their English skill. How often do you see deaf/hh commenters or bloggers who frequent discussion forums who have really bad English skill/writing? All the more reason why IM and emails are the more popular venue away from the wider, prying public eyes of the internet. Which is why now vlogging is a godsend for many of them who want to say their piece of mind.
Written fluency in the local language is considered very important in most of the countries I’ve visited. It’s not unique or whatever to the U.S.
And I’d say it is quite important. Much as it would be wonderful if everyone signed ASL whether hearing or deaf, the fact is that most people can read and write, and the ability to communicate, in whatever form, is crucial.
Um, I think you guys missed my point.
The attitude Americans often have is that English is the ONLY language worth learning. Everything else is relegated to second language courses and for “fun”. I read newspaper articles from people angrily declaring, “They can’t speak Spanish if they want to be Americans”. Why ever not? Just because a person speaks Spanish does not mean they cannot be fluent in English as well.
Not many people do recognize that literacy in ASL benefits you as much as literacy in English does (mentally, that is).
But then those same American people turn around and mock those who are bilinguals, such as in Europe. I have met Europeans who are on their third language, and their English is BETTER than some hearing americans I’ve met.
Yet, the same american feels superior because English is a widely used language in the world today and scoffs at those who propose the virtues of second language learning.
It is precisely this attitude that interests, the isolationist attitude that I’ve seen people adopt - that I once was guilty of (back when I didn’t know better), that if a deaf person is fluent in English, s/he is smarter and better than the deaf person fluent in ASL.
Granted, the English-fluent one would function better in the hearing world, but by no means is language acquisition linked to intelligence. It is an innate ability EVERYBODY has. But then along comes the ASL user with poor English skills and s/he is sneered at.
WHY?
I’d like to add a comment I have here regarding your response.
I know a lot of Americans are quite upset with the Cuban/Spanish community in Miami (Florida).
Long ago, Miami used to have a lot of English-speaking “white” people living and working there. But today, the hispanic community numbers has outstripped the growth of the non-hispanics. (White flight perhaps?)
There are TOO many stores and signs all over Miami that are in Spanish (why they never have English on their signs as well is one thing I never will understand).
Many of the tourists from other parts of USA as well as those from Florida–north of Miami–are complaining that they cannot understand Spanish. Miami effectually has been overrun by the Cuban/Hispanic community over the last 30 years! Many people are lamenting that in order to find a job or even open a business in Miami, you must be able to speak/read/converse in Spanish.
You ask me why I am talking about this?
First of all, this is America and we had English in the first place for AGES until the exodus of Cubans from Cuba and South America (last I heard, more illegal Mexicans are migrating to Florida from Texas). For the sake of argument here: Why can’t these nationality/ethnic groups adapt to our English language FIRST before permanently living here and eventually setting up businesses here? (Note: this is not a personal attack on these folks at all). I’m just digressing with what has been going on for a long time down in Florida (I used to live there so I do know what’s going on down there!)
Food for thought here: should there be a law mandating English only since many feel that they should assimiliate with us, not the other way around. In fact, if we moved to, say, France–do you think the French would go for us setting up an area in their city like the Cubans did with “Little Havana” in Miami? I think not! Many of the French would be insulted by that move of ours-if we did make that move.
Thoughts anyone?
If there was a law mandating English only, do you imagine what that would do to discourage those who are not fluent in English from finding work here? That includes deaf people as well. A system will be created, by which a group of people speaks one language will be oppressed by another. Can you imagine the legal problems there would be? You’d get a letter from your employer saying, “You did not use a preposition in your second sentence correctly, and so I must terminate your employment as according to subsection 57A of the English Law”
Yes, I am being hyperbolic, but it is not too long ago that in Ireland, Gaelic was banned from public usage and they were prosecuted for teaching and using their native language at schools and public areas.
And um. I do have a suggestion. Why don’t you learn Spanish? After all, it is a mulitcultural world today and we would all benefit if we adapted to it instead of trying to resist the changes.
WS, um. As for “English only” law. Nothing about grammar skill just that the English language be used.
In the Mescalero Apache casino near where I live poker rooms have a very strict “English only” rule when cards are in play.
Though many immigrants who came here *LEGALLY* knew that knowing and learning Englilsh will help them survive and prosper. It’s no difference if you immigrated to China or Japan and you MUST learn their language in order to survive.
Go to Quebec and learn the have a strict French (Quebecois) only language law that applies to businesses and such. I’ve been to Quebec and I had to speak French in order to get around. Even the word “taxi” is banned even though it IS a French word. But Quebec is thriving.
28 states have adopted the English-only law. http://www.us-english.org/inc/
Common sense is used in these English-only laws. I don’t see much legal problems by having English be the official language. It calls for assimilation…not separation.
Even in Mexico, Spanish is their official language though English is widely used in business.
This statement, as uncomfortable as it is for many folks, is exceptionally true for the whole outside world.
Like it or not, you do get judged on your English skills here in the United States, whether written or not. There is a reason for an income disparity between someone who does not use good English and someone who has an excellent command of the written English language.
People who have a mastery of the English language are, rightly or wrongly, are perceived to be educated and, therefore, taken seriously. Those who cannot, like many deafies, are not taken seriously. This goes on from cover letters, resumes, emails, letters, editorial, online blogs, and other written correspondence that someone might face throughout a working day. With the United States rapidly transitioning to an “information age,” and the decline of manufacturing, excellent writing skills are more imperative than ever.
I could go on and on about the verbal aspect of English, and how the listener mentally places you in a class upon hearing you speak, i.e., social, financial, regional, and educational stratification, but that’s neither here nor there.
The point is, excellent English writing skills can and do separate you from the pack.
I have always said that when a person uses ad hominem attacks or insults, especially at a larger group, I see the person as having an underlying insecurity issue. A resentment that boils to the top with obnoxious words. There’s no other way of seeing this whenever people simply lashes out with those kinds of retorts, insults or ad hominem attacks. As rule, it’s impossible to please everybody.
I much rather debate than debase.
Shane is probably right in his observation that if we don’t fall in line with the majority Deaf view, we’re just as bad as the next audist in line. I hope that this is just minority example of what we’re seeing rather than it being the norm.
As always, learn to agree to disagree if it comes to a point of no return.
haha, as I’m pretty much parallel to this view, I’d much rather make a joke of it all. However, I’m not so sure about the “insecurity issue” comment.
There’s far too much to enjoy, see, flick boogers at, and too many good people to drink with. Unfortunately, misery loves company.
Shane,
By continuing to use the “not deaf enough” soundbyte, you are perpetuating propaganda that was deliberately created by Jordan and Fernandes to divide the deaf community.
You are contradicting yourself, because you are actually supporting Jordan and Fernandes in your attempt to distance yourself from them, whether you realize it or not.
I don’t blame Shane for bringing it back up again, it has been a filthy hot topic or debate, if you will.
Brian Riley,
I am supporting Dr. I. King Jordan and Dr. Jane Fernandes? What led you to that conclusion?
I am quoting, verbatim, what one commenter said about DeafDC Bloggers/commenters/etc. If that sentence by the commenter does not mean “not deaf enough”, how do we properly interpret it?
What I mean is if we continue to keep the “not deaf enough” sound bite alive, then we are helping Jordan and Fernandes, whether we intended to or not.
It’s a very deceptive type of propaganda because it has multiple meanings and is obfuscatory. What does it mean? Does it mean someone who is “not deaf enough” has an oral background? Or does it mean they disapprove of Deaf culture? Or does it mean that the approve, but not enough?
The term is completely confusing and obfuscatory and only causes division in the deaf community. That’s what Jordan and Fernandes intended to do, cause division.
Actually, the division was perpetuated by the protesters in the first place. No matter how you spin it, a key component of the protest was the fact that JKF wasn’t deaf enough.
I couldn’t possibly disagree with you more Brian. Shane has every right to use the phrase.
Brian Riley,
The phrase “not black enough” was used well before the Gallaudet protests. Google “not black enough” and you will get 73,400 hits. This Blog:
http://qandablog.typepad.com/q.....enoug.html
Provides its definition of “not black enough” which could also apply to “not deaf enough”:
“Meaning of course, you don’t think like you are supposed to think.”
This is similar to the sign where we place “hearing” to the head to insult a deaf person of “thinking like a hearing person” which also causes division in the deaf community.
Both sides are guilty of dividing the deaf community. Only through open dialogue and respect for others (which includes, not using “holier than thou” terms that may closely resemble “not deaf enough” or “does not think like a hearing person” etc.) can we re-unite the community.
That’s just one possible interpretation of the phrase. It has multiple meanings, depending on the context, and that’s exactly why our enemies use it as propaganda. It makes us look unreasonable, like: “What do you mean? She has too much hearing?”
There was a prominent CNN news segment where the graphic on the screen said: “New president must be completely deaf”–They fell for the trick.
Even Lennard Davis fell for the trick in his awful pseudo-analyis in the Chronicle of Higher Education’s Jan 12, 2007 isse (Click on my name to read it.)
Anyway, the not “deaf enough” phrase was taken from the 1995 “Deaf President Now” book by Christiansen and Barnartt, page 10. Jordan helped put this book together. That’s where the propaganda came from.
“Our enemies”?
Do you realize what this makes you sound like?
Grow up; divisions between the D/deaf community does not constitute a war.
I disagree with you, Brian. No matter who raised the issue of “not deaf enough” in the first place,” it’s not just a piece of propaganda. It’s not just a divisive tactic deployed by JKF/Jordan. Ask any solitaire who came late to the deaf community, and you’ll see that the “not deaf enough” attitude existed long before the protests (”think-hearing” e.g.). Naming the problem is a first step towards confronting it. Without referring to “not deaf enough,” we can’t unpack and refute its various meanings. And that, in my opinion, is precisely what Shane is doing in this blog. I think you’re being divisive, whether you realize it or not, by continuing to frame the discussion in terms of supporting JKF/Jordan or not. Why do we still care who supported who? JKF is out. Jordan is out. We’ve got a new future to work on.
Well, there are some Deaf people who do have this “not Deaf enough” chip on their shoulder. It does exist. That’s the way it is. Though the question is how many people Deaf people actually share that kind of attitude out there? And on what level? And whether they do it consciously or subconsciously nowadays. And you could probably actually see that kind of an attitude by reading between the lines on some of the comments people made in the past. And therein lies the problem as Shane have said. In what way and how can we interpret those kinds of comments? It’s probably on the same level in trying to discern a written remark as being racist or not. Does it exist?
There are also people who do have a “you’re too deaf” chip on their shoulder as well, and are too quick to assume a default opposition position to those they perceive as being too insulated into the deaf world.
It goes both ways. It’s important to remember that.
So with one polar opposite being audism and the other end being Deafism, you have to be wary of absolutes and a one size fits all argument?
Gotcha.
hmm. yeah I’m with you on that one.
Brian–
Whoa–that’s a very strong accusation you have made against Shane and I don’t think he is actually supporting both of them at all. He’s playing the Devil’s Advocate at times to encourage debate in the blogosphere community and I don’t see anything wrong with that.
I agree with Shane that he never did state (explicitly or sublimely) anywhere here that he supports Jordan and Fernandes. I’d caution you to be careful with your accusaations lest you be embarrassed in the future if he asks you to show concrete proof of evidence supporting your arguments.
Just my .02
Brian,
I am guessing (and only guessing, please correct me) you are objecting to the idea that there is even a “deaf enough” concept, a sensitive subject especially since Fernandes and Jordan capitalized on it. Or that you feel Shane is actually playing the “deaf enough” card in his explanation of why DeafDC is neither a pro- or anti- protest site, but a bona fide discussion forum.
While you could argue those points (and I especially see/agree with your point about “deaf enough” being divisive), I saw Shane’s main point as being that DeafDC was pigeonholed (without basis) as anti-protest, and that pigeonholing was a result of being open to discussion. That alone was/is quite interesting.
But please do add to the dialogue here: If not a Deaf yardstick, then what was the branding of DeafDC as anti-protest based on?
What I’m trying to say is that we need to be precise. “Not deaf enough” has multiple meanings and is vague. It’s meaningless by itself without a proper context.
Also, come on. Let’s get honest with ourselves. Jordan was accepted by culturally deaf people and made into a secular god. That means that no one can accuse culturally deaf people of being exclusive. Why do people overlook this incredibly obvious point?
You know I’m deaf, I’m deaf, you know it
(deaf, deaf, really really deaf)
You know I’m deaf, you know, hoo (grabs crotch)
(deaf, deaf, really really deaf)
You know I’m deaf, I’m deaf, you know it, you know
(deaf,deaf, really really deaf)
And the whole world knows I’m deaf and I’m proud
Just tell me once again….. who’s deaf
(I must be a hypocrite if I heard this song, damn I’m so obtuse!)
*Applause*
Woooo! That was a good one! You gave Weird Al Yankovic a run for his money. Just wanted to say thanks for the laff. This is a great topic on a great blog but it got so heavy my mind numbed over. Then I saw *this* and started howling. Awesome!
I personally view the DeafDc.com’s tendency to be pro-IKJ and JF from time to time. I do not know why!
For example, some blog writers occassionally fail to identify themselves that they are Gallaudet adminstrative and staff employees from Bobby Cox to Oscar Octue.
My understanding is that the DeafDC.com people are largely coming from NTID. Nothing wrong with that! Rob surely happen to have his regular contacts with the NTID people. Very understandable!
The DeafDC.com and Rob Rice are brilliantly conveying the deaf blogs to increase the online traffic and give such an impression to the adversiters and corporate sponsors. That is an excellent business concept of drawing more corporate $$$.
The handful of blog respondents to the DeafDc.com seems more pro-IKJ and JF than the protestors. I don’t know WHY???
At least, the blog writers provide such a thought-provoking pieces than just being a part of “sheep” flock.
I always truly appreciate of the DeafDC.com for letting me express my inner thoughts on this very blog forum. Many thanks!!
Sincerely yours,
Robert L. Mason (RLM)
RLM, Bobby Cox’s employment status is no mystery where he works at Gallaudet. This was discussed before on DeafDC last year when you lamented that Cox failed to reveal who he works for ( http://www.deafdc.com/blog/bob.....nderstand/ - see post(#27269) on 2006-10-23 13:28:35) when all one has to do is click on his picture to read his profile about him.
Note: This was copied from below to the correct location.
Excuse moi! How can I know about Bobby Cox’s personal profile like clicking on his pic. No written instruction along with the pic or on the DeafDC.com
Every writer or editoral columnist usually enclose their employment status at the end of all editoral column. That is a common practice for many editorial writers to identify hirself who and why he or she is writing the column. Thanks!
Robert L. Mason (RLM)
RLM,
You make a good point. I will think about this and discuss it with the Bloggers. Thanks for always being honest with your opinions on DeafDC.com.
Shane
Come to think of it, while Guest Bloggers do have their “bio” printed up at the end of the post, the same thing doesn’t occur for posts by the DeafDC regular bloggers. It might not be a bad idea to apply the same rule for ALL the bloggers, be they Regulars or Guests.
trying to get rid of me, Virginia?? (giggle)
????
Your point being…?
Interesting. I do NOT see DeafDC.com as not being deaf enough. To do that would be to deny the entire spectrum of the deaf experience. However, I DO see DeafDC.com as unbalanced. A vital segment of the population is not represented. I don’t see anyone who grew up in a deaf school, or anyone deaf with a deaf family, or more than a few people who identify strongly with the values shared by that subgroup. Other than that, DeafDC.com has representatives from many of the other subgroups within our community, which is great. But this is a glaring omission and makes the website as a whole appear unbalanced. I’d like to strongly suggest adding one or two quality bloggers with that type of background to bring the overall site into balance. But I repeat - “not deaf enough” is not the issue here. That’s ridiculous.
Excellent point. However, I do recall that we have had at least one guest blogger who easily fit your criteria. I can also name at least five regular DeafDC bloggers who attended deaf schools. Finally, I recall that Rob Rice comes from a deaf family.
How about a ‘quality’ blogger who is deaf or hard of hearing but does NOT sign? Would our readers eagerly welcome that blogger?
I’ll be serious here, when I arrived for the first time, the culture shock was extremely unwelcoming to an individual who can speak and use hearing aids. Took a girl out for a weekend, we had a great time, went back to Campus and then she ignored me completely. I know it stinks but hey, she’s now with a kid and can’t get a job to support the child, so her parents help her all the way.
anyway, my point is, one of the things that really confused me when I was a student, why is it that the actual Deaf community (deaf families, schools, identity blah blah) on campus is MUCH smaller than it’s hard of hearing (mainstreamed group) counterparts, about 3 to 1 retrospectively, yet the former has such enormous influence over the lot. I tried to be involved in SBG back in the day but was left out since the bulk of them silently refused to work with me as I didn’t sign as well as they could. amazing how things turned out.
To have a hearing loss does not mean the person knows or must know sign language. The word “deaf” ascribed to a person does not necessarily imply that a person knows sign language.
We should welcome all people who have hearing losses to DeafDC whether born deaf or late deafened. Or even a CODA since DeafDC does have one blogger who is just that.
Hmm. Yet another interesting perception. Take another look at our regular blogger list.
I’m personally not sure about the deaf school criterion (I only had one year at a residential school, darn), but at least two of us grew up in a Deaf family, and nine of us have Deaf family members.
Even so, I think that’s an important note. Thanks for making it.
Shane does have a very good point here (as well as other intelligent folks who do put forth rational arguments/debates on here).
However, I’d like to interject with something that another deaf individual said to me the other day. The person remarked that DeafDC com may be biased towards people they “identify” with when it comes to accepting guest bloggers. When I asked what this person meant by this, the response was that they just don’t accept any guest blogger off the street but only accept those that they are “comfortable” with or are in good social standing with them. Upon further prodding, I was told that a few people who want to be guest bloggers on here are largely ignored because they aren’t in the same social circles or “good graces” with the folks that run this blog board. Now, before you retort with any responses, please understand that these comments aren’t of my own opinions or statements. I’m merely passing on what was the other person’s mind at the time when we had our discourse over DeafDC.com going ons on various topics that have been discussed on here.
I am going to reiterate here that I am not advancing or negating any of the thoughts emanating from the person I talked with the other day over this blogging site. I just found these thoughts rather interesting and I have no idea if the thoughts of this individual is valid or not as I am not on the “inside” of this website.
Come of it–Shane did say: “Our Bloggers are free to Blog about whatever they want, and we readily accepted many of the Guest Blogs submitted to us which met our criteria.”
Pray tell us, what are the “criteria” that Shane speaks of here? What are the requirements herein? Pictures must be submitted of the guest blogger? Definite name must be given?
Reason I asked is what will happen if the owners or even the adminstrator, Shane, doesn’t “like” the individual? Will they readily or grudgingly accept the guest blogger nonetheless? Is DeafDC website truly impartial here or must the blogger kind of “advance” the thoughts/agenda of the website owners/administrator or even that of other established blogger members of DeafDC.com?
Like Sovnarkom says so very well here: “I prefer the devil’s advocate discussions which are often found here rather than the groupthink that is so frequently found elsewhere.” I agree with him 100%. I like to point out the other side of the coin sometimes just to make a point there not just for myself but for others who don’t want to “speak up” for fear of being ostracized or slammed to a point.
But in the end, everyone, too, must learn to agree to disagree if there is no resolution/agreement in sight.
Just food for thought here!
I do not believe that DeafDC can ever be truly impartial, and I also do not know if this is the objective here. The only common thread that I see among many posts is that they display a heightened ability to present discourse outside the usual parameters. And that’s exactly what keeps so many readers coming back, no?
I keep returning to this blog because I enjoy the discussions. I can disagree with someone, but still learn something from what was said. Many of the commentators and bloggers make very thought-provoking comments.
And quite frankly, I think that’s unprecedented in the deaf community, and may be why we were called ’socially undeveloped HoH nerds.’
DeafDC.com is definitely breaking ground. I think we should be proud of that.
~ Deaf Pundit
I’m beginning to feel like the deafdc bloggers are going to have to put up their resumes for everyone to see. Everyone has the right to publicize where they work, but not everyone can do that because of the company they work for. Just because some people seem think they ought to know exactly where we work & where we went to school.
After all, i did go to a deaf school from pre-school until 6th grade. When I made the choice of transferring to a public school not only to get a better education, but I had some problems with other kids. So I transferred. Does that even count?
Personally I think the growing list of bloggers on this site has a variety of different perspectives because that’s what we need. I know i’ve been educated so much just by reading the other blogs. We can’t always have just one perspective. It wouldn’t work quite so well. And some of us have been known to disagree with one another.
and as deaf pundit said– it is ground breaking….I think for one, it just might make the community a bit stronger.
I don’t want to come across as one of those “dissenting retorters” responding with arguments against the statements Aquafina has passed on, but I would like to make a comment or two, if I may.
I have been fortunate to serve as a Guest Blogger here on DeafDC.com, and I am thankful to Shane for such an opportunity. While I am a Gallaudet alumnus, it has been over 25 years since I lived in the DC area, and several years since I last visited the city. To the best of my knowledge, I have never met any of the DeafDC regular bloggers (oops, other than Erin Cassler briefly at a conference once), and my interactions with any of them have been via the occasional email and through our comments on this blog site.
When I wrote the two “articles” expressing my own perceptions regarding the Gallaudet Protest and submitted them to DeafDC, I had no way of knowing whether or not they would be accepted, and was prepared for the possibility they may in fact be rejected - not because of the lack of any “good graces” between me and the administrators of this site, but simply because I recognized that these blogs might be considered a bit “risky” for posting. After all, I was 1) touching on issues of religion/spirituality, which can always be a slippery slope; and 2) the spirituality of which I was discussing is Paganism, which in itself can be a sensitive subject.
Nevertheless, whatever personal opinions Shane and DeafDC might have had about my spiritual beliefs, these were put aside for the sake of reviewing my blogs on their own merits - and they were both accepted for posting here on this site…for which I am quite appreciative.
This - in my humble opinion - is as it should be. Blogs submitted for posting here should be evaluated for their quality and their content, and their ability to somehow reach out to the DeafDC audience in a thought-provoking manner. One doesn’t have to agree with what is said, but if such blogs can inform us, educate us, enlighten us, and/or just plain entertain us, then they have served their purpose.
I cannot and will not speak for others, but I for one feel that Shane and DeafDC have done a great job in monitoring this site, encouraging constructive dialogue, and selecting both regular bloggers and guest bloggers who can represent the true diversity of the Deaf Community, and the broad range of thoughts, opinions, beliefs, lifestyles, and perspectives of the members of such a community.
I agree that Shane has done a superb job on this website. I have known him from my days at RIT and knew he would do a bang up job in his field. Surely my judgement about him turned out to be correct.
Before Shane came on board, we didn’t have a “moderator” who cajoled us into making our opinions known on this blog. Right, Shane?
Aquafina-
You spoke about Espanol being used all over South Florida; Do I know you? Drop me a line at my website. (The link is in my name.)
RLM, Bobby Cox’s employment status is no mystery where he works at Gallaudet. This was discussed before on DeafDC last year when you lamented that Cox failed to reveal who he works for ( http://www.deafdc.com/blog/bob.....nderstand/ - see post(#27269) on 2006-10-23 13:28:35) when all one has to do is click on his picture to read his profile about him.
Hello folks -
Just a short to note to say that I have been reading DeafDC blogs from day one. They do bring up many interesting topics for us to ponder - thanks for doing that.
Joey
Joey Baer,
Thanks for your kind words. I find your website just as valuable. Keep up the good work.
Shane
Keep doing what you do deafDC. You guys do it very well!
In response to MIke Connell’s reply.
Every editoral writer ought to enclose their employment status or affilation he or she is associated at the end of every column. That is a common practice among editoral writers for us to know who and why this person is writing.
Not everyone have such oppournity to find out about Bobby Cox’s personal profile last year! No written instruction along with the pic to click for personal profile!
Why would the Gallaudet adminstrative people bother to submit such controvestial e-article during the Gally protest? That raises such question of whether the DeafDC.com is intellectually and editorially balanced or not.
If Bobby Cox or someone else ENCLOSE their employment status at the end of column in the first place. I would not have any problem with it. I personally like Bobby Cox. He is surely a nice guy.
Not everyone know who James Earl Carter is. If he submit his birth name - James Earl Carter, instead of Jimmy Carter on his frequent articles. The younger generation have no idea of who James Earl Carter as the former U.S. President. Same thing with George McGovern or Mike Dukakis, the former Democratic nominees! Why I mention those individuals? They are lesser known than elected Presidents of last 30 years from Nixon to Ford to GWHB.
Every editoral writer ought to mention his affilation or employment status or not worthy reading without knowing any possible bias on part of writer, period!
Robert L. Mason (RLM)
Well, that’s up to them and the webpage design. Perhaps something like this?
http://www.i711.com/my711.php?.....rticle=130
RLM, should we make the commenters do the same?
I am sorry that, from among my posts, it is that one which gets singled out. More so, that it was used in conjunction with “not Deaf enough” and DeafDC.com’s perceived sympathy for Dr. Jane Fernandes.
Regardless, I like DeafDC.com and will continue to comment. Lastly, I hold its bloggers and respondents in good faith–no matter how others may read into what I said, we live together and I wouldn’t want it any other way.
s f,
You have contributed many insightful comments to DeafDC, so I am happy that you will continue to do that. I think that it is important to realize that making comments such as the one you did has an impact on how members of the deaf community view each other, whether intended or unintended.
Yes, I wouldn’t want it any other way, I enjoy being a part of the community. It makes the deaf community more interesting. I think this dialogue is productive and may do more to contribute to the “healing process” than celebrating a traumatic experience.
DeafDC.com blog has been very challenging and many issues may be sensitive but the most important thing is we learn. I have watched this blog and started to see how people think. Shane has done an excellent job with this blog. Shane has my utmost respect.
I actually like DeafDC.com because it represents a wide variety of individuals who are Deaf, deaf, hard-of-hearing, or hearing. My experiences are more like the experiences that the bloggers have related to us here on DeafDC.com. I really don’t get that sense out in the Deaf blog world, where the Deaf are much more vocal than the oral, the hard-of-hearing, deaf, and CIers, which is ironic considering the small size of the Deaf community in comparison to the large size of the hard-of-hearing, deaf, oral, and CI community.
Noelle,
The hard of hearing community has been very vocal. One only has to look at the fast-growing HLAA and its increasing clout as a sign of things to come in the future.
One thing that I am disturbed by, which is probably better for a future Blog, is that many hard of hearing people argue that they have larger numbers, which implicitly diminishes the signing community’s importance, presence, or significance. It should not be that way, we should not measure groups by the size of their numbers or even who “suffers” more (which the signing community could argue).
Both groups have a common concern, and that is “communication access”. Some solutions address both needs, like captioning, while other situations require a combination of a loop system and a sign language interpreter.
I’m not a hard of hearing nerd. I’m hearing.
Yeah, maybe still a nerd, but whatever…
Could be worse- I could be Deaf and be Ridor.
I think that as blogging grows in this community, the community is going to establish a natural “left” and “right” on almost any political issue out there. This is good, because the further apart the left and right get, the more we’re going to start seeing two things:
One, the “middle” will become far more balanced. Which is what you want, because what currently passes for conservativism in this community is really just widespread apathy and borderline xenophobia. Traditionally, so long as their borders were not breached, our various infighting groups more or less just left everything alone until the whole structure rotted from within, and that’s the true cause of most of the problems we’re now facing. Once the middle starts getting continuously bombarded by the weirdest, wildest ideas out there (which will come in from all sides, the left, right, and from the middle itself), the further its borders and boundaries will stretch until they can encompass almost anything. Once the bulk of the community is able to do this, we’re going to be a lot better off, and we’re going to get along a lot better. So thank your lucky stars for blogging and vlogging, because these two mediums are able to do what paper-based mediums within the community have never been able to do… flood us instantly and constantly with new idea after new idea. The Silent News, for example, as a paper-based resource, would never have been able to keep up with what’s going on right now on blogs.
The second things we’re going to start seeing on the surface might seem to be a bit contradictory, but really it’s not, because it’s fueled by #1 above. The further apart the “left” and the “right” seem to grow, the more they’re going to start sounding exactly the same in their fanaticism. Thus what we now see as polar opposites will soon become an enclosed circle… and what’s “left” and “right” of a given issue will cease to be as important as what’s “extreme” left and right of a given issue, since most conservatives, especially by that time, will stay away from both in order to maintain their identity as conservatives.
Don’t worry so much about who pigeonholes which blog as pro- or anti- whatever. In the end all blogs end up doing the same thing.
Totally agree with you, Chris!
It absolutely makes a perfect sense.
This kind of media (vlog and blog) in our own very community is revolutionary. It is going to push us further on issues and doing something proactive about them that many generations before us have struggled to let be heard other than discussing amongst themselves. Many same issues have gone on for too long with little or no resolutions.
Chris,
Great comment. We definitely should stretch our borders so we understand each other and get along. DeafDC intends to bring issues from all sides to our readers and promote respectful dialogue on them.
I think people should just relax and accept that everyone is different—no one is alike. The only link is deafness and it should stop there. There is no need to analyze everything to death and then proceed to nitpick them for not conforming to your standards or beliefs, whatever they are. I probably don’t come off as meeting the deaf criterias because I’m certainly missing one or two things. There are all types of deafness. I don’t care how they became deaf, how they learned ASL, whether they can speak or not. They also have the right to lead their lives however they choose to. They are not required to conform to one standard/belief. Even if it does not define deaf. Deaf is deaf, period.
I’m going to go off the point here…I don’t get it why some people go ga-ga over such little bitty things. That’s lame. We’re all adults now and we have our own lives. We don’t have to account ourselves for anyone when we want to write something for the public to read. Yes, that’s all you are getting out of me; that I’m deaf. If people want to vent something or talk about the ups and downs of their lives (I can’t order a pizza! darn it *sob*); that’s their business. I think it’s more purely for entertainment or prephaps as a resource to vent. Some of the blogs…Gee, I don’t really care if someone had trouble ordering a pizza. It happens to everyone, so what? You surely don’t expect every single citizen in this country to know what relay is or have had expereince with deaf customers. Some has gone through their entire life without ever meeting a deaf person. So what’s the point? Is it about common sense, what? I just wonder why it’s taking up space in here. Seems alot of blogs here has to do with a deaf issue one way or other. I know it’s a deaf website (duh). Frankly, I don’t understand when someone grips about a ‘issue’ with the relay service or how they were served at a resturant. It’s part of life and it’s bound to happen again so get on with it. Everyone get treated with bad service, even the hearing people! It’s starting to sound that being deaf is not normal…that it’s abnormal. I’m not going to stomp my foot when the cashier didn’t understand my request for paper and pen the first time…I just need to teach her how to interact with a deaf customer then she will serve me better in the future when I order there again (real case—I get good service and they treat me like everyone else everytime I come back because they know how to take my order now). Why not just forget about the deaf issue for one moment and discuss something oridinary…like how your kid’s team won the game or you came across a great book? Just putting my two cents’ worth in. and no I’m not going to do a blog on this.
I’d be interested in your real life experiences that don’t have anything to do with being deaf. I’d welcome such a blog, especially if it is something we can all relate to. But on the other hand, that blog about the pizza was definitely something I could relate to from a deaf aspect. I enjoyed that and suspect I would enjoy your tale about getting good service……..
GG:
Question… at what point does the discussion of any issue become “darn it, *sob*?” The second the author indicates he has some sort of problem with it? The second it seems remotely negative? The second the author appears to be venting?
I ask because I see what you said–more or less the “get over it this stuff happens to everyone every day, not just to deaf people” argument–being applied by a great many deaf people (and hearing people!) not just to issues as simple as the ordering of a pizza (or the inability to order one because people are such dumbsh*ts), but also to practically everything else deaf people care about or try to do something about. Shoot, just a few days ago in the Chronicle of Higher Education, one author said that it seemed a bit weird that a whole community would react like this to the mere placement of an upper-level administrator. See what I mean? It kind of sounds the same–”get over it, this kind of thing happens all the time, so why make such a big thing of it?”
Well I’ll tell you why. Apply that same argument to Native Americans and it now becomes: “So people are grabbing up your land–so what? It happens all over the world, and not just to Native Americans! Get over it!”
Or how about women? “Women are raped all over the world yet treated like the assiliant instead of the victim because of it every day! Get over it! Shoot, someone is raped, what, every thirteen minutes in this country! Fact of life! Sheesh!”
And you know what’s even weirder? If I were to say, “Well, gosh, man, that sound a bit like internalized oppression, y’know? I mean, if you were a white slave owner, what kind of black slave would you rather deal with, the one who is so pissed at you he’s out trying to slit your throat in your sleep every night, or the one who says to his fellow slaves ‘Gee, it’s not like slavery is an institution unique to the United States, right? People have been made into slaves since before the time of the Romans and the Egyptians! We should just get over ourselves already and quit *sob!* whining about it and concentrate on other topics, such as tips for avoiding blisters out in the cotton fields or some such thing…’ Obviously you’d want to be dealing with the latter… the type who’s already so busy kicking his own ass he doesn’t have any time to start kicking yours.
And yet if I said all of that to you, you’d no doubt go “What? Now you’re accusing me of suffering from internalized oppression just because I said that I didn’t really care to read a blog about the difficulties that deaf people have when ordering a pizza? Sheesh, lighten up, man!”
Well, dude, I can’t lighten up, because betweeen you and the Chronicle of Higher Education guy, it seems that it’s not really okay for me to be upset about anything that impacts me as a deaf person in this world…
…and that in and of itself upsets me.
Dizzying, isn’t it?
I wouldn’t be upset about the pizza situation. It’s very annoying, yes, but not worth getting upset over. It’s too bad places like these don’t really have faxes, because I would’ve sent a fax stating that if they do not accept a relay call, I will file a complaint.
I did it to a t-shirt store, and they apologized profusely and accepted my calls. Problem solved.
~ Deaf Pundit
Papa Johns pizza…you can order a pizza over the internet. I do it all the time. Half time it’s phone. Other half it’s internet when my wife orders it.
Really? If only they had a whole wheat crust.
I tried ordering pizza from Papa Johns over the internet once and I’ll never order from Papa John again as it did not deliver pizza to me. I wasn’t pleased with it’s service.
Chris:
Bless you and I’m so happy to know that someone like you exist!
How did it go from ordering a pizza over the phone to criminal acts? You really went off the point and started comparing it with criminal acts and felonies. Good lord! It does not make sense! That is not an intelligent counteragrument. I would never condemn a crime committed against someone (rape and oppession against an entire race). What does that have to do with customer service? If you want my opinion on the land taken from the Indians and the ingenious people that live in the rain forest…that was morally wrong and I wouldn’t say to them to get over that…that would be stupid! How did that get in your head to do that? I was talking about phone service and how you get served in a resturant. That is nothing compared to a woman being raped. I was merely pointing out that it happens to other people besides deaf people too. And it will happen again, I guarantee you. He may think it was an isolated situation but hearing people and people of race are not invincible and do get bad service just like anyone else. I’ll bet that hearing people have had trouble calling in for a pizza or chinese food as well (bad connection, can’t understand accent, speaking too slow/fast, etc…you name it). Also he didn’t seem to think there was another way to solve it besides haggling with the relay service. Some deaf people have this attitude that it should never happen to them or don’t deserve it. Come on! Look around you, it happens to other people as well…not just you. I’ve had people tell me that they received poor service over the phone from someone in my workplace. So it can happen to anyone. Don’t take it personal, man.
I also notice that some people never bother to take the time to ‘teach’ others how to adapt to a situation when they have to serve a deaf customer. I use the word, ‘teach’, because some have never encoutered a deaf person before and might not know how to interact with them. Chewing them out, threatening them or moaning about it wouldn’t solve the problem unless you tell them how they should handle it. I don’t chew someone out when they say ‘tell her that I…..’. I just say ‘please speeak to me on a first person basis’ and that solves the problem quickly and easily! Or if the cashier doesn’t read english; let the other cashier read your order for you. It has happened more than once so it’s not an isolated situation. Once, I had someone who could not understand what I wanted and there was no paper and pen so I just turned around the the customer behind me and told him to tell him what I wanted. I wanted a small coke and he kept giving me the largest cup he had. I thanked the other customer after I got my order. No need to complain about it…what for? He was an old man and he was the only one there! I just adapt to the situation whenever it comes up. That’s my other point…adaption.
Hello G.G.:
Yes, I understand and agree, the point is adaption. But it’s not a question of my counter-argument not being intelligent… people already do things like that. Haven’t you heard people saying to black people, “Come on, get over slavery already, will you? It hasn’t existed in America for for over a hundred years!”
The point I’m trying to make is that people automatically jump to the “stop bitching” thing (and no, I’m not saying that you said precisely these words, but in spirit what you said comes pretty close). Why is it bitching? Why does a guy who is angry about not being able to get decent service deserve to be… well, not exactly ‘mocked’ with things like “I can’t order a pizza, darn it, *sob!*”… but … ‘met’ with statements like that? Responded to with statements like that? As if his frustration, his irritation, his anger are in and of themselves the real problem, and not the things that caused his frustration in the first place?
Why is it ‘venting’ instead of ‘expressing?’
I mean, what’s a legitimate problem? What level of severity does an issue have to reach before it’s time to NOT adapt, before it’s time not to grow up anymore, before anger is a justified reaction? Because wow, I notice that some people REALLY have a problem with people who talk about their problems. Tell you what, let’s take what Shane wrote above, the article that spawned all of these posts. His last sentence reads: “And if anyone did not wholeheartedly agree with the protesters, they are “not deaf enough.”
Yeah, well, there’s a counter-side to that, and if I were to write my own article on that counter-side, my last sentence would read “And if anyone did not wholeheartedly agree with ___________ (insert issue here… ‘those who hired JKF, the pizza parlor that won’t take Relay calls, the cops who maced Doug Bahl, etc’), then they’re a bunch of whining crybabies who need to grow up and accept once and for all that misfortune strikes us all, even hearing people, and complaining about it isn’t going to make it better.”
GG, your point was adaption. My point is… you’re worth more than the job of being everybody’s official afterthought. Yes, I believe in educating people. It’s just that I don’t believe in educating them and educating them and educating them. There are limits. There SHOULD be limits. Why do you think that organizations such as the Better Business Bureau even exist, if we’re all supposed to be so super-patient and understanding at all times?
Could it be that maybe we’re not supposed to be? Could it be that, I don’t know, if our schools completely suck, if we can’t get good jobs without facing levels and layers of prejudice and discrimination, if our institutions are rotted through with favoritism and colonialism, if Hearing America remains largely as ignorant and arrogant today concerning deafness is it was a hundred years ago… we’re supposed to get just a tad upset about this?
Meet me halfway, here. I’ll concede the points, yes, we should adapt, yes, we should keep our cool long enough to educate people, yes, we should fight the good fight.
But there are limits. And all of us deserve the right to discuss the situtions that bug us, that make us feel belittled and ignored and invisible without our own people adding insult to injury with this “grow up” or “sob!” or “the world isn’t fair” bullshit. God, what’s the big threat? What’s the big crime? Shane made the point that we should let people have their opinions. Well, I’ll do ya one better. Let them have their damn emotions, too! Even if something seems stupid and trivial and small to you… I’ll bet you a buck that a lot of people have been adding these isolated stupid and trivial incidents to an endless, unexpressed list of *other* stupid and trivial incidents, to the point where a) they’re ready to friggin’ explode, and b) the rest of the world has no idea it was ever doing anything wrong.
Tell me how either result helps any of us out.
Am I making sense here?
I think you make perfect sense, Chris…and I for one agree with you.
Whether it be Bobby “bitching” about trying to get a damn pizza, or Allison “venting” about her family members and their hearingnisms, there is a certain catharsis to be found in the writing and posting of such blogs. When we can express those frustrations with other members of our community, we not only find validation for what we feel, but for who we are as well.
And I feel validated too. I can read such posts and take comfort in knowing that I’m not alone - that others get tired of the educating and the advocating and the adapting and ignoring and the belittling and all the other umpteen headaches that go along with being a deaf person living in a hearing world.
And yes, there are times when I too need to have my own rant, or I would just “friggin’ explode.”
Sometimes…people just want to be “heard.”