I’ve been carrying around this thought with me for the past few weeks. It’s a pretty interesting thought. A bit scary though when I peek a look. It’s a bit intense. It’s a bit confusing. This thought, it whispers boldly, “maybe it wouldn’t be so bad after all if Gallaudet closed.”
When I first thought it, I blanched with fear and looked quickly over my shoulder. As if maybe people could read my thoughts. It’s a bad one! Really, Julie, how could you even think it?! Gallaudet is the hallowed hall of the Deaf community! It is at the heart of so many Deaf traditions! Home to so many! Through all this rhetoric I kept telling myself in the weak attempt to mask the bold thought, it remained, “maybe it wouldn’t be so bad after all if Gallaudet closed.”
No amount of denying it would make it go away. So, I’ve been humoring it and tossing it around a bit, letting it out now and then. Everyone’s hearing about the bad name Gallaudet has out in the world now because of the “violent” protest during which a few “extremists” took the university “hostage”. People are wondering what’ll happen if Gallaudet loses its accreditation. Gallaudet has so much to fix. Is it really up for the job? Some people are talking about transferring to other universities, about finding new jobs, about going somewhere else.
I ventured an attempt at voicing the thought to a friend, someone outspoken during the protest but also someone I knew to be level-headed and open to fair discussion. “Maybe it wouldn’t be so bad after all if Gallaudet closed.”
“No!” He stared at me, his mouth open in shock. “Gallaudet’s the heart of the Deaf community. Close? What?”
“Maybe it’s time to start anew. Maybe we should just go somewhere else and move on,” I started to reason with him.
“Oh, so that’s your answer to the problem? Just cut off a damaged part of the body and forget about it?” He retorted.
I shut up and pulled away my thought. It didn’t go away but it retreated for awhile, allowing me to try to think it over. Gallaudet… it’s clearly an important institution for the American (and even the international) Deaf community. It’s the one place where Deaf people can go and be at home. My friend’s right, how dare I be so callous and even dare suggest abandoning it? I’m a bad Deaf person. Or so that’s what I was convinced of until I heard a professor talk in class today… he tells the class, “Gallaudet is built on the assumption that Deaf people cannot function on their own, that they need to depend on hearing people to survive in the mainstream.”
That clinched it for me. There are two parts to Gallaudet. There’s the administration, which assumes that Deaf people are helpless because they got access to language late in life and as a result couldn’t succeed in school (and who’s to say that the American deaf system is qualified to teach deaf kids anyway?) and arrived to an university practically illiterate with little to contribute to society. One could argue that Gallaudet thrives on maintaining this, that the whole system is built to pander to these students. It’s why Gallaudet has English classes that would be a joke at another university. It’s why some of the staff who have been working there for over twenty years can still barely sign. It’s why Gallaudet isn’t turning out the best research it could if it truly supported its departments and faculty.
But there’s another part, the part we heard during the protest, the part made up of people who understand that there are several things wrong with the system and tried to fight for “social justice.” They believe in ASL, in the Deaf community, in all those things. These people, be them students, alumni, staff or faculty, make up the true part of Gallaudet. It seems to me that these people are more mobile than the first part, the administration, which seems to have control of Gallaudet, the physical Gallaudet. They won’t get their heads out of their offices and look at what’s really going on at Gallaudet. What would happen if the true part of Gallaudet picked up and moved elsewhere? They could go somewhere else and start all over again, or they could break up and scatter across the country and start a new page in American Deaf history. Is the American Deaf community ready for that? Could Gallaudet really close without seriously damaging the American Deaf university scene and the larger Deaf community. Are we hurting ourselves more by clinging so tightly on an institution that may not be really appropriate for our current needs?
I don’t really know. I’m still holding onto the thought. I’m still adding more body to it. But now I’m articulating it to you, an admittedly larger audience than I would usually dare, because maybe we should think about the question of what would happen if Gallaudet closed. I’m a graduate student, working to get my master’s and hopefully my PhD. I like my professors. I like my classmates. I like working there. There’s nowhere else I would get the same opportunity. I’d be really sad if Gallaudet closed, which may happen if it doesn’t respond accordingly to current pressures. But it may happen. Shouldn’t we talk about it?
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Innerspace: Analyzing Blogs and Ourselves
Mea culpa.
Everybody’s in on this.
I don’t know. One major component of Gallaudet was that students went there, learned ASL, then went back home and passed it on. That’s one big reason why ASL’s so uniform in North America.
It’s true that we are the heart of Gallaudet, but every culture needs its center. And Gallaudet and the deaf state schools are the center. So if those disappear, what’s the center of our culture? Where would we meet to share our common values, ethics, humor, stories and language?
So if Gallaudet closes, we would lose that, and we would begin to see at the very least, the development of ASL dialects.
I didn’t have a very positive experience at Gallaudet, and the protests gave me more of a negative view on Gallaudet, but I don’t want it to close. I think it can be saved. But it’ll require some revolutionary thinking and a cultural paradigm shift. I think the real question is: Are we willing to do a paradigm shift?
It’s not easy, and it will require action instead of just sitting around and discussing it. So I don’t know, really.
If Gallaudet University gets closed, it would be a major embarrassment of our American government that prohibits discrimination against anything. It’s really too bad that the IKJ administration was extremely misleading in this matter. MSA is a voluntary group that advocates higher learning and teaching, and they would come up with recommendations for improvements. Communicate with the PR office in MSA and you will find them to be great folks who are NOT at anybody’s throat.
Our government “prohibits discrimination against anything”? That’s my first question. My second is: how does this relate to the closing of Gallaudet? I’m asking seriously (as an alum of Gally).
Julie,
You said it - it is the ADMINISRATION that has been ailing Gallaudet, not the students. They set the standards and came to Gallaudet with already very low expectations from deaf people. Moving elsewhere does not solve anything. If anything, there will no longer be any core - we all would become lost and scattered. Gallaudet is what holds us all together - a core. We all have to say, “Hey, hearies. We can take care of ourselves.” Look at you. You write so well. Don’t you think there are more of you out there you haven’t met? The functional deaf illiterates at Gallaudet are more visible because they are hungry to learn more while the higher functional literates are likely to be content to go unnoticed because they learn differently from the other group. But both groups cannot survive without each other. They need each other. What we DON’T need is conscendending attitudes from the administration, BoT, and some faculty. That is what is hurting Gallaudet the most.
Why the negativism? Clearly, the UFG protest was a major, major *advance* and something that should inspire us to re-dedicate ourselves to take Gallaudet to greater and greater heights!
Don’t be fooled by the distorted perceptions out there. The protest was a tremendously uplifting event! Clear away the ugly cobwebs from the Jordan era. It’s time for Spring cleaning!!!
Remember how DPN energized everyone and brought such wonderful changes? The same thing will happen with UFG. There will be wonderful things happening in the near future in the deaf community as a result of UFG–things which are almost beyond our wildest imagination.
The first major thing that is going to happen is that the bi-bi method of instruction will become more widely used and established as the best method of deaf ed.
Granted, there is much that is wrong with Gallaudet–it was historically founded on paternalism, as a school for the deaf indeed. However, if Gallaudet were to disappear, we would establish a new university anyway…based on loftier goals of higher education, cultural enhancement, and linguistic study just as other groups have done.
We have to admit that the slums is making it harder for Gallaudet to retain its prestige. Very difficult to recruit so intelligent youths from the civilized, intelligent pastures.
When was the last time you visited Gallaudet?
I admit I play with the idea of “so what if gallaudet shuts down..” I agree with Julie and other commentators about many things wrong with Gally though in most part, it means well in guise of pandering or not.
the research and linguistic parts of Gallaudet may be one of the better ones about the institution. I don’t think we’ll miss much of undergraduate. There are community colleges around the country to help not only mainstream population, but deaf ones too to meet college entrance standards. I used to fantasize Gally as a primarily research centre of deaf culture and deaf education, progress, a think tank.
deafspook - “the slums”?
the slums = Florida Ave
Introspection helps us understand the role and function of Gallaudet University in the dynamics of our community. Here are some possible outcomes of a Gallaudet closure (I am purely speculating and could be wrong):
CSUN and RIT/NTID enrollment goes up. New deaf programs of comparable size are established at other hearing colleges. More money goes towards PEPNET. As a result, more hearing people are exposed to the deaf community at mainstreamed colleges. It leads to increased interest in becoming interpreters, deaf educators, and other deaf-related professions. A greater number of hearing people also become more aware of deaf issues (but never reaching the magnitude of impact by the Deaf President Now movement). Increased enrollment of deaf and hard of hearing people (who do not enroll at the deaf programs, but rather strike out alone or in small groups) creates more demand for interpreters at mainstreamed colleges/Universities. This adds pressure to an already strained interpreting industry sapped by VRS call centers.
Deaf students, faced with the challenge of attending various Universities with different levels of admissions requirements and academic rigor, re-evaluate their academic priorities. The trickle-down effect could be increased emphasis on meeting different academic needs of deaf children. Some will begin working out of high school, while others go on to earn their Ph.D.s. However, will deaf education, as a whole, improve? Or will deaf education be abandoned in favor of mainstreamed programs that strive to comply with equal access laws, thus fitting square pegs (deaf children) into round holes (standard hearing education)? It is also likely that deaf schools/institutes lose big ally.
The deaf community’s identity would depend more on social interaction at DPHHs, deaf clubs (where they exist), deaf community centers or religious institutions, and other social events. Dependence on the NAD for culture, rights, and leadership grows and the WFD gains prominence as the international leader of all deaf communities in the world. Yet would adequate funding follow for both organizations when less deaf people are aware of their identity?
It would be a tremendous loss if we did not have a central place with stable funding for the various programs at Gallaudet. Deaf people would have less opportunities to work in a fully-deaf, visu-centric environment. Our community would lose the brainpower of research centers and collective bodies of academic thought on campus. Finally, Gallaudet is also a place that our community can call “home”…which is irreplaceable and priceless.
Gallaudet should not close. But the prospect of closure helps us understand Gallaudet’s place, and importance, in our community.
Love that quotation: “Will deaf education be abandoned in favor of mainstreamed programs that strive to comply with equal access laws, thus fitting square pegs (deaf children) into round holes (standard hearing education)?”
This statement has an underlying assumption that deaf children cannot learn the same material that hearing children learn (sqaure peg/round hole.) This bothers me greatly. We cry for recognition of our abilities, yet seem unable to suck it up and attain the level of education expected of hearing children. Why is that?
I think you’re reading too much into that. Seriously, can you teach a deaf child who can only communicate through sign language by just speaking? There needs to be a different approach, apparently.
However, as for the quality/standards of the education, it should be on par with state’s curriculum for its public schools.
I said nothing about the approach. We should teach in the language best suited to the child. I do, however, reject the idea that deaf cannot learn the same material as hearing, by virtue of our deafness. Poppycock!
Shane discussed about hearing people being exposed to the deaf community. It has many advantages. Here’s one: I was hire at my first engineering job because my supervisor’s a RIT graduate. I know a few other deaf people in the workforce where they were hired thanks to deaf culture/community already known to employers.
Hi All: I posted this on Gally-Net early today before reading Julie’s article, but I think it still connects with what she’s saying:
Do you remember the whole “if we protest Congress might shut us down” mentality that this institution was struggling with in September? Back when it wasn’t clear if the protest would sputter out or explode? Does anyone find it interesting that Congress apparently stayed out of it– promising people who went to the Hill that they wouldn’t touch our budget–yet now the MSA is stepping in and doing their own version of what so many people feared that Congress was going to do?
How many institutions (and mainstream programs for that matter) for the deaf are right now choked with employees and students who would just LOVE to publicly protest horrible conditions, yet don’t, because they fear the same thing? Big surprise why they end up doing nothing, hey? If it’s not Congress it’s the state governments. If it’s not state governments its the MSA or someone equivalent to them. If not that, then it’s whatever state board that’s in charge of making sure the buildings in a given area won’t fall over during the next earthquake.
There’s always someone. And it always seems that the more power these people have, the more distant they are from what’s going on in our schools… and the less they know about deafness. Of course they don’t come right out and say “don’t protest” or “behave yourselves” or anything like that. But wow, in a reality where nobody says this directly, can you nonetheless feel the gun pressed to your forehead? I sure can–a whole bunch of them–one right after the other. In fact I don’t think there was ever a moment in my professional life where I pushed one away long enough to find out what it feels like to not have one there.
From what I get (regarding their recent visit), the MSA said that the only thing that matters is that Gallaudet was out of compliance. Deaf Culture doesn’t matter… deaf vs. hearing issues don’t matter, and Deaf vs. deaf issues don’t matter. They don’t care. All they care about is the fact that Gallaudet isn’t living up to the same standards as other universities.
And while I don’t doubt they said something like that, does that make them right? Isn’t that kind of like an insurance investigtor saying, “I don’t care WHY your house burned down–the fact that it burned down at all means it’s your fault.”
Our problems won’t magically go away just because the MSA says we’re guilty, and they won’t magically go away even after the MSA decides to punish us (or not). If hearing parents in general keep on avoiding ASL, and if we don’t start getting teachers who can really sign well into our schools, then we’re going to see a lot more deaf children grow up to be functionally illiterate. It doesn’t matter what kind of shared governance model Gallaudet develops and ultimately adheres to. It doesn’t matter how much academic rigor we apply to our programs and classes (especially if our incoming freshmen can’t read USA Today). In the end we’re only as good as the educational realities that produce a deaf high school graduate. With a lot of work, perhaps somewhere down the road we can pull the mote from our own eye. But once we do, what of the one stuck in our neighbor’s? Because we’re still strapped firmly into the passenger seat of his car, blind as he is, he’s not slowing down anytime soon.
I wonder if the MSA cares about that. Because if they do, one really should ask: which is more important to them… Gallaudet’s compliance with MSA standards, or widespread educational change that might eventually produce deaf adults who can read?
Students who cannot read do not belong at the university level, period.
Why is it Gallaudet’s responsibility to teach illiterate students?! Do you see illiterate hearing people going to universities? No, you do not.
I believe that if Gallaudet complies with MSA standards, it will have a positive effect. It will force the faculty to take teaching more seriously, and weed out the illiterate students who don’t belong there in the first place.
If we want to educate the illiterate deaf, then we need to focus on the K-12 schools, not Gallaudet. And maybe we need to establish another place - not another university - to educate the illiterate deaf adults.
Hi Deaf Pundit:
Yes, I have seen illiterate hearing people attend universities. I went to UW-Milwaukee. I worked as an English tutor for three years out of the four and a half I spent there earning my BA. Trust me when I say that a good quarter of our athletes read at a fourth grade level. Why should that surprise you? There’s money to be made in bringing in students with athletic skills (if not academic ones). And that says nothing of the many international students who didn’t speak English at all. “Literacy” means a lot of different things. You, for example, a fully literate person in English (and I’m assuming in ASL) would be illiterate in mainstream Japanese society (assuming you don’t speak/read/write that language). UW-Milwaukee in my day had English 90, 95, and 100, all non-credit, just as Gallaudet has 50, 70, and 80. Furthermore, English 101 at UWM wasn’t anything worth bragging about. English 102 here at Gallaudet uses 10 Steps to Improving College Reading… a comparable text to the one my class used (I started out in 101). We didn’t get up to books such as Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass until English 102, and again, English 204 classes at Gallaudet use similar texts.
What I’m saying is, there’s a mentality out there that, if something is “Deaf,” it logically must = “sh*t.” And I’m sorry but that’s just not true. Yes, many of our incoming freshman have severe problems. So do a lot of freshmen at hearing universities… you just don’t notice it because because the public educational system is built to ACCOMDATE hearing children… they aren’t neglected for years and years. Numerous hearing students do, however, slip through the cracks.
Now you do make good points regarding the question “why is it Gallaudet that has to educate functionally illiterate students?” Well, that’s because, by virtue of being a “deaf” university, logically “deaf” students are our client base. And it’s simply more likely that the ones who are mainstreamed and are never exposed to other deaf people will simply go to hearing universities when they graduate. Does that mean they’ll do a lot better? No. Once again, I point out UW-M, my alma matter. A lot of mainstream deaf students are going there… and amongst that population, you’ll find the same literacy problems that Gallaudet faces. It’s just that UW-M makes enough money and has enough students (hearing) to blow those struggling deaf students off if need be. In doing so will they have solved the problem? As far as the problem relates to them and their money, yes. As far as the problem relates to educating deaf students, no.
Keep that in mind.
Chris Heuer,
Are you saying that in order to survive, Gallaudet has to bring down the quality of its education to meet its target enrollment?
Should this cycle be broken? What is a better alternative?
Just because Gallaudet has to accomodate a population with different needs does nto mean they cannot offer higher quality classes. I took honor classes at Gallaudet and found myself challenged by the information and learned from it.
WSS,
Gallaudet can continue to offer honors classes; however, accepting low quality students to meet target enrollment may adversely impact the overall quality of education.
I took a part in the Honors program but those classes simply were not challenging enough. Good thing I took upon myself to take some consortium classes at GWU. Those engineering and math classes not available at Gallaudet were much more challenging! That’s one key is by taking advantage of the consortium program where some 12 or 13 other universities are a member of. It should be a prequisite among those in the Honors program or even just among those who are not in the Honors program but must take at least, for example, 2 or 3 consortium classes as a requirement. After all, when they graduate from Gallaudet they’ll eventually will have to face the world outside the cozy confines of Gallaudet campus.
sorry for the write up…it was a hurried one. bleh.
not a bad idea re: requiring to take some consortium classes.
Chris, I again have to disagree with you. I grew up mainstreamed in Michigan. The K-12 educational system in general, just plain out-right sucks. It’s not just deaf ed. It’s the whole system.
Regarding the university level, I also attended RIT, not NTID. And while I was not an English tutor, I did read the course catalogs, and I don’t recall seeing very many remedial English courses. But then, RIT has fairly high admission standards. So I dunno. Maybe it all depends on the admission standards.
At the local community college, there are many illiterate hearing students, and they usually end up dropping out, because it’s just too late for them to learn English.
There are also many factors that contribute to the crappy educational system. For a child to succeed well, you need parental involvement. You need competent teachers who care about the students, not about when is the next paycheck. You also need community investment.
Now what’s a double whammy for the deaf community, the parents aren’t involved. Nor are they very well educated on deaf issues. The deaf community doesn’t really understand well of how to approach the parents and educate them on the issues involved. Nor do we have any real political power. We have a ton of potential political power, but we have yet to seize that power.
We have teachers, but not very many are that competent and they stay forever in the system. Because the deaf community is unwilling to call them out immediately.
We tend to wait and wait, thinking it’ll get better. Then when we finally say, ‘Hey, this ain’t gonna get better…’ it’s too late to do anything! The teacher’s already entrenched in the system.
I was lucky because my parents were willing to seek out the deaf community and get their input. Then my mother was very adamant that I was held to the same standard as hearing students when it came to learning.
I’m not saying deaf = sh*t, but I think it is perfectly reasonable to say, hey, we can and should be held to the same standards as the hearing.
It’s the method of how to teach the deaf students I think, is where the huge debate comes in. How do we teach the deaf students, so they are on the same playing field as the hearing?
We have to address all of the factors involved, and thus far, we’re not willing to even look at those factors!
I agree with you on the need for greater parental involvement in the education of their children. My mother was very heavily involved in my education, and it is because of her that I am where I am today as an adult in this society.
She held me to the same standards that she held for my two hearing brothers. My deafness for her did not mean having low expectations of my future–she insisted that I do my best.
If more parents were like my mother with deaf children, I think these children would have a greater chance of succeeding. One interesting point I’ve always wanted to discuss is whether class differences play a role in deaf education. For instance, do deaf children from well-to-do families do better at education? That’d be a great topic to explore.
Hi Everyone:
Scroll to the bottom, okay?
Noelle, my parents were the same way. There was always the unspoken expectation of excellence, and I hated doing anything to disappoint my parents. Plus, they paid me a dollar for every A I earned on my report card. Money talks, eh? My sister (hearing) and I were always in hot competition for the most A’s.
I detect a whiff of desire for gallaudet to be subject to different standards of accreditation simply because we’re deaf. The whole “we want our cake and eat it too” theme is an unidentified current beneath your post.
MSA has clear guidelines, ones that Gallaudet has had relatively little trouble following convincingly until it decided to get a new president, and then the agenda turned to the idea that deaf culture should take up more of Gallaudet’s focus than the educational part…
Julie, kudos to you for raising the notion. I, too, have wondered what would happen if Gallaudet were to shut down. Took it one step further by wondering what the Feds would do with Kendall Green. Move a government agency there? Move Howard U? Or would they sell it to the Redskins and have FedEx Field move into the city?
I think the bigger question may not be an ‘if’, but is a matter of ‘when’. I wrote this reply in the ‘Future Shock’ thread at AllDeaf.com;
Future Shock Reply
With that in mind, this discussion may be rendered academic, as there may not be a critical mass needed to sustain Gallaudet 20, 30, or 50 years from now. And that would truly be a sad moment in human history.
In the meantime, we can still do much for the current state of affairs at Gallaudet; Strengthen its academic underpinnings and allow it to flourish in academic circles. That can only help Gallaudet in the future, when diminishing returns rears its ugly specter of closure.
The cochlear implant is not a cure. It just helps you hear—up to a certain point. I don’t hear everything with it, and I still miss out on quite a bit in my hearing environment.
Without the implant, I can’t hear at all. With it, I have moderate deafness.
would it be accurate to say that CI turns deaf people into HoH? just curious- i don’t know that much abt CIs.
Ben, it depends on how you define HoH. With my CI on, sound detection is in the mild range. That means I can hear people breathing, and the rustle of my clothes when I walk down the hall. But I still don’t have much speech discrimination ability. I can catch short phrases in known context, that’s about it. There’s tremendous variation in hearing levels and speech discrimination. The CI doesn’t work the same way for everybody who has one.
Not to mention past memory of what soound and speech was like prior to having a CI. Such as a hearing person who lost his/her hearing and then gets CI later on.
I know one young woman who was had little hearing left got CI and she quickly disappeared from the deaf society. She told me she enjoys talking with the customers at her flower shop. I asked her if she would come with me to watch deaf softball game, she declined because she is finished with deaf society. She is much happier now in the hearing world.
More power to her if she feels happy, then she’s happy.
that’s interesting, Scooter. I think one of the biggest fears about the impact of the CI on the deaf community is that its members will leave in droves once they experience the quote “delights” unquote of the hearing world. My opinion so far is that, at least where deaf adults are concerned, that fear is unfounded. I personally don’t know any deaf adults who got a CI and then disappeared from deaf society, but that’s not to say it doesn’t happen. My (somewhat limited) experience is that if a deaf person is immersed in deaf society to begin with, he or she will stay in it. Wonder if that woman was hh or late deafened to begin with, and joined the deaf community simply by default?
Now there’s a scary thought.
Hi Deaf Pundit (#77338 above), Shane, Everyone Else:
Deaf Pundit, where exactly do we disagree? You say the hearing educational system sucks too (at least in Michigan), and I say that there were a lot of hearing students struggling at UW-M, so how do those two statements NOT back each other up? They do. IN GENERAL I think hearing education is a lot better to hearing students than Deaf Education is to deaf students, if only because hearing education has a greater vested interest in educating hearing students than Deaf Education has in educating deaf students. Parental involvement is a factor in that (though of course there are hearing parents who aren’t involved with their hearing kids, as well).
What I’m trying to say here, and in fact I think this is a good argument against IKJ’s “deaf absolutist” thing in the Washington Post, is this:
Establish a scale for Hearing and Deaf Extremism, with Hearing Extremism occupying position A on the line below, and Deaf Extremism occupying position Z, like so:
A—–M-N—–Z
“M” and “N” on the scale actually represent a balance between the desires of those two extremist factions, with the perfect midpoint being right between M and N. Now what we need to do first is figure out where this whole situation (not only with Gallaudet but also with Deaf Ed all throughout the country) IS on the overall scale. For example, are deaf people by and large forcing hearing children to learn ASL? Or is it the other way around, with hearing people forcing deaf people to learn English? Are deaf people by and large destroying their hearing childrens’ eardrums or something, or is it the other way around, with hearing parents implanting deaf children with CIs? Are deaf people by and large (remember, we’re talking about the 30 million deaf or HI people in America now, not the comparatively few–by the logic of many DeafDC commenters–who supposedly occupy position Z) discriminating against hearing people for their ability to hear, or is it the other way around?
The truth is that mainstream society is WAAAAAAY over by like B or C on this scale, with deaf people constantly being ignored, neglected, oppressed, etc far more than other hearing people are. And this recent UFG protest is being treated like a Deaf Absolutist movement, when in fact its a movement to pull our overall social reality away from “B” or “C” and over to “M” or “N.” Towards the TRUE middle, in other words, and not towards the opposite extreme. Does that makes sense?
Now Deaf Pundit, we’re also in full agreement that the Deaf Community is a huge, huge, HUGE sleeping political giant. But we don’t fight, because we haven’t woken up yet. I think that’s happening right now.
And Shane, regarding your questions as to whether or not there are alternatives… before we get into that… let me just say clarify something… OF COURSE I don’t advocate bringing in students who are not qualified to Gallaudet. You’re right, that’s what pulls down the overall quality of education. But I AM arguing this: Gallaudet doesn’t create the pool it selects from. The mainstream and residential educational systems do that.
And furthermore, I just had a conversation with a person I know who transferred out of Gallaudet to a hearing university in another state. I asked her if she liked the education, if she found it challenging. She said yes. I asked if she felt involved… she said no. She said she felt ignored. We weren’t talking about keg parties, either. We were talking about the flow of information in the classroom. I asked what campus life was like there… her interaction, her social and political development, her contacts with her peers that might eventually lead to the development of her principles, those beliefs that will eventually make her who she is.
She said, “Well, I don’t have much contact with the other students on campus. I usually just stay in my room.”
Oh, great! Great! THAT’S a much better college education! Thank God for hearing schools that have so much more to offer!
I’m going to post this now… will talk about solutions later…
“The mainstream and residential educational systems do that.”
Right, I agree with you. NTID/RIT faces the same challenges, it is not limited to Gallaudet.
I am going off the point a little, when we speak of NTID/RIT, I wonder if anyone is aware that NTID is a non-credit program? I went to NTID for 1 year and Gally and my other university did not accept any credits from NTID. I had to repeat the same courses again, I asked why, NTID is not considered a credited school. Why is that? A friend of mine went to NTID for 4 years and got Associates degree, While Gally 4 years equals Bachelor’s degree, maybe 5 if you changed your major but catch my drift? I wonder if NTID still have that same system where we are spending 80,000 for an associates degree that is not accepted to other colleges? I am not alone in this.
Anyway at Gally, I went there for a year, I loved it there, the social there was better and I was treated better as a deaf person at Gally than I was at NTID, education was better compared to NTID (not RIT). I did wonder what would happen if Gally closed but I fear to think of it because we have this sense that Gally is there and our sense of security? and we know we will be there again for any events. I believe Gally is the core of the deaf community around the world not just U.S. alone.
CSUN and NTID is a branch from Gally - well to me anyway, ha.
We disagree on the point about hearing incoming freshmen having similar problems to the deaf.
The American College Testing services just recommended that anyone who does not score at or above 16 not take 100+ college level courses.
I know this because I was talking about this with a college professor. She also told me that only 3 colleges in the entire state of Michigan will admit college students who score below 16 on the ACT. Now, I don’t know about other states, but I would be surprised if MI was alone in the college admission standards.
Now, regarding athletes… I can believe that. Athletics on the college level are big bucks. But would they get in if they weren’t an athlete? The answer is most likely a big fat no.
Right. That’s what I’m saying. A big fat no. Somehow we’re not connecting here… I’m not sure where I’m not being clear. I think that as a population deaf college freshmen have MANY MORE problems than the population of hearing freshmen. In other words there are far more qualified hearing college freshmen on the whole than there are deaf college freshmen.
All I was arguing above is the fact that illiterate hearing students can and indeed do get into college (not just community colleges either… I mean universities). Probably not on the same scale that illiterate deaf students get into deaf programs anywhere in America, but they still do (at an undetermined rate).
We agree that deaf students have many problems, and there are more qualified hearing students than deaf students.
The college admissions regarding hearing and deaf students - it’s definitely not on the same scale. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was more than a 1:5 ratio. There’s probably documentation somewhere to support this.
The K-12 schools still give deaf students different tests than they give the hearing students, for instance.
Not only that but until recently, NTID’s ACT score minimum was 12. I’m not sure about Gallaudet’s, but I’m fairly sure it’s low too. So someone just needs to gather all of that information, then publish a research paper.
Then we would have a solid backing for overhauling Deaf education in the K-12. Protests won’t change the system in the long-term. Research and documentation will do that. It’s not very glamorous or attention grabbing, but it is successful.
As for deaf extremism, it’s there. And definitely for audism as well. Nobody is denying that audism exists. But I don’t think it’s as bad as it used to be compared to twenty or fifteen years ago. Those things take time to change.
I, personally, rather take things one step at a time than have intense upheaval. And I think that’s where many of us differ. *shrugs*
i don’t think gally takes ACT scores into account for admissions.
“Then we would have a solid backing for overhauling Deaf education in the K-12.”
it already has been documented many times over that average deaf hs graduates read at 3rd or 4th grade level. what should we do about it? that’s the question. and no im not suggesting a protest.
Ah. Thanks for the info regarding Gally and the ACT scores.
We could get more involved on the local level. There’s a lot we could do, but nobody’s really shown any interest in that. So.. *shrugs*
Why is it the hearing school’s responsibility to get deaf students involved??? If this girl wanted to, she could very well leave her dorm room, walk up to the nearest friendly looking person, and start a conversation. She could join clubs and demand to be involved. I go to a hearing university for grad school, and yes, we are left to our own devices as deaf students. There’s not a lot of effort on the part of hearing folks to get to know us. So we need to be the aggressor…the one who is assertive and takes our development into our own hands. The victim mentality is so pervasive in society already, and it serves deaf people in the mainstream no purpose to buy into that line of crap.
Hi CyanSquirrel:
Scroll down to the bottom, will you? Thanks.
Julie,
Guess the group that disagrees with you outnumber the group that agrees with you. The former agrees there are a number of problems that need to be addressed and attended to but closing Gallaudet will not solve anything but possibly make things worse.
So you have your answer. “Maybe It Will Be So Bad After All!”
And, Julie, why are you thinking this? America is all about CHOICES. If you are of the opinion that Gallaudet is not prestigious enough and does not meet your standards, you can always go elsewhere. There are numerous community colleges, colleges, and universities that provide interpreting services.
By courting the idea of closing Gallaudet, you are saying Gallaudet contributes nothing to the Deaf therefore it should just close the gates. You are saying we can just all go elsewhere and disappear into the mainstream society. Fight our own fights alone. Live our lives alone.
NOW that is scary, Julie. A very lonely existence with no support system.
It is a besetting vice of democracies to substitute public opinion for law. This is the usual form in which masses of men exhibit their tyranny. -James Fenimore Cooper
How does the posters here expect the broader world to have much sympathy for those who lead the rebellion at Gallaudet. I am an alumni and i lived on campus for four years and survived. People out in the country are struggling to try to pay bills for education for themselves and their children. College is quickly becoming too expensive for the children of Middle Class America. Those who do attend end up owing thousands and thousands of dollars in debts when they graduate. The students are saddled with this debt for the years when they enter this careers.
I believe most of the Gallaudet Students come with Vocational Rehab support and many also have SSI benefits and free medical care.As a result many deaf students are insulated from the world. The world is a harsh place very demanding and unforgiving .
That Battle for Deaf Cultural was fought years ago and we lost. Schools for the Deaf are becoming irrevelant in education of the deaf in most states. I see deaf youth coming from main stream who have the 4 Cs they 1, Cant Read, 2, Can’t Sign 3. Cant Talk 4, Cant write expressively and many have regular High School Diplomas.
I see CIs working miracles for 10 -15% of the people implanted they assist maybe 20% additonal percent in a postive way the others get little benefit fromt he implants. I have friends who have been deaf all their lives and have implants with the reasoning that they can hear music or a bird sing or hear loud noises. It does no good to argue against the implants they will keep growing and spreading.
The people who lead the rebellion at Gally if they are adults ought to step up and accept accountabiliy for what they did. During the Civil Rights protest most of those folks accepted jail time and stood in court to answer charges agains themselves for breaking the law. Instead the folks at Gally want to be let off scott free and not be held accountable for thier actions.
I just see negatives growing out of the Rebellion and nothing worth while coming from any of it either for the University or for the deaf community as a whole.
Gary,
Don’t listen to Jordan and his supporters. They gave a totally distorted view to the media.
The protesters DID pay their fines when they were arrested. They DID face the consequences of their act of civil disobedience.
The term “scott free” is a totally incorrect because it implies that the protesters did something wrong. The did not do anything wrong at all. They did the proper thing.
The battle to keep the residential schools open has NOT been lost. The new trend in deaf ed is the bilingual-bicultural method and it has been picking up steam and growing stronger every year.
How is it you think Gary doesn’t have a mind of his own Brian RILEY?
You’re putting words in my mouth.
Fine: why do you think, Brian RILEY, that Gary is listening to “IKJ and his supporters” and not forming his own opinion?
For heaven’s sakes. Don’t be so defensive. You are creating a problem that doesn’t exist.
Excuse me? I’m asking you a simple question. You stated that he shouldnt listen to IKJ and I’m asking you Brian RILEY why you think he is?
That’s just a common way of speaking that really means: “It seems to me that you are giving too much consideration to Jordan’s view in the process of forming your own view.”
Maybe he isn’t. I was not insisting that he was. It’s just a manner of speaking.
lol, nice retreat (yes, I’m being facetious Brian RILEY). I see this again and again. If someone doesn’t spout the protest party line they are accused of not thinking for themelves (of giving too much consideration to Jordan’s view). If they DO spout the protest party line they are lauded for being an independent thinker. It always makes me laugh.
FWIW, nothing in Gary’s comment made ME think he wasn’t forming his own views.