What’s your definition of imperfection? If you’re a regular Deaf reader of DeafDC.com, then it may differ from that of the general population. Especially those who have been aborting fetuses due to their cleft lips or webbed fingers. And then compare that to this article, where a Deaf Lesbian couple purposely increases their chances of having a Deaf child.
This reminds me of the day that we found out our daughter had passed her hearing test. We knew all along that she would–but the nurse who delivered my results on paper? Just earlier that day, she had crossed her fingers in clear hope that my baby would pass. And then, when we got the results, she gave this great big sigh of relief. Uh, okay. Thanks for doing that right in front of the deaf mother. My own, personal definition of imperfection? A world devoid of half-empty milk bottles, dirty diapers, tiny socks, Johnson’s Baby shampoo, and rubber ducks.
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Great point, JT! I, if I have kids, will love them no matter what, be they hearing, Deaf, striped, polka-dotted, et cetera. But if I get a nurse who shows a marked preference for a hearing baby, I’m going to either scream for joy if it’s deaf or erupt in hysterical sobs, screaming, “No! Why? WHY????” if it’s hearing… Just to make a point. *devilish grin*
We all have different views of what it means to be imperfect. I don’t think of myself as imperfect because I have a cochlear implant–I just am. However, aborting fetuses for easily fixable conditions is just ridiculous. I can understand aborting a fetus for serious medical conditions though.
I wonder if the deaf pro-choice folks would support a mother’s decision to abort a baby because s/he will be deaf?
Ugh. Difficult to draw the line here. For so many expectant parents, deafness is a major disability and could theoretically reduce quality of life. I can imagine some parents feeling justified in aborting fetuses that show symptoms of deafness, despite the fact that deafness is, at least, “fixable.”
However, I think the majority wouldn’t abort fetuses in any case unless it had a far more severe, debilitating disability.
I would not support that decision, because any child that has a treatable condition, whether it be blindness or deafness, cleft lips, or club foot, should be born. But that’s not my decision to make and people have the right to make decisions I may not agree with.
For instance I don’t know if I would abort a fetus with Down’s Syndrome, cerebral palsy, or severe retardation. I might—every parent ideally wants a healthy child that is responsive, intelligent, and can support oneself.
This is not something that doctors should be doing. They took an oath to do preserve life and now they are playing God.
Look at the Hippocratic Oath …”Nor will I give a woman a pessary to procure abortion.” Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_Oath
That’s from the original Greek version of the Hippocratic Oath. The modern Hippocratic Oath is different from that original Greek version. The modern Hippocratic Oath doesn’t swear allegiance to pagan gods such as Apollo, Aesculapius, Hygiea, and Panacea as the old one does.
And a “pessary” means a vaginal suppository, which would be extremely dangerous to the woman back in Grecian times without the benefit of modern medicine. However, pessaries, herbs, and drugs were commonly used and recommended by physicians in the ancient world, as evidenced by early writings and records.
Indeed hundreds and hundreds of years ago, deaflinux, it said that… read your own link and find “# To never attempt to induce an abortion. The wide availability of abortions in much of the world suggests that many physicians no longer feel bound by this.
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Uh, I’d think you should read Hippocrates’ works a bit more. Here’s one of examples, his quote: “If we could give every individual the right amount of nourishment and exercise, not too little and not too much, we would have found the safest way to health.”
Go out and drive (or walk) around a few blocks and tell me how many unhealthy fast foods you see in your local area.
On a serious note, since you played the “doctors” card, I wonder if you know that doctors themselves cause 225,000 deaths per year? Know what it’s called? “Iatrogenic causes“. What kind of “iatrogenic causes” you probably ask? It is:
12,000 — unnecessary surgery
7,000 — medication errors in hospitals
20,000 — other errors in hospitals
80,000 — infections in hospitals
106,000 — non-error, negative effects of drugs
225,000 deaths per year. That’s only a small part of the biggest problem (health care) in America. And has anyone–especially the so-called “pro-lifers” (although they cannot call them “pro-life” if they support wars, the death penalty, tortures, the list goes on and on that Jesus condemned)–ever raised some concerns about these doctors and their iatrogenic causes?
Ah, I think not. Besides the fact, more than 45 millions of U.S. citizens in America and growing don’t have the access to health care due to lack of health insurance. Considering the fact, how many did they died by the lack of health care? Probably more than what we think, I gather.
However Noelle nailed it so no more explanation needed from me.
At the risk of attracting flames or inciting a tangential discussion, what’s the difference between telling a woman she can’t abort because her baby is deaf or has some other condition and telling a woman she can’t abort because she hasn’t been beaten hard enough by her rapist, a la South Dakota’s Bill Napoli.
I may be simultaneously pro-life and pro-choice (and yes, that’s possible), and I may have a bias as to whether it’s okay to abort a deaf baby, but once we start making judgments about what it is or isn’t appropriate for a woman to do with her own body, as the CDC did when it deemed it appropriate to do when it decided to label all non-carrying women “pre-pregnant”.
For all the things women who may or may not be mothers are capable of doing with their bodies, you’d think we’d leave the decision-making to them. When that baby does come out, as you so eloquently put it, the last thing a mother or father wants to be thinking about is someone else’s judgment.
Excellent links, thanks. As early as the 1600s to 1700s, women in Colonial America were persecuted for aborting their babies. Unfortunately, more leniency was usually given to the men who “forced” women into aborting- one example had to do with a man impregnating his slave. The CDC’s guidelines sounds quite reasonable (all of us should always be taking precautionary measures, ANYWAY) but it really comes down to choice- to which the woman should be fully entitled.
I think that most Americans, like you, also are simultaneously pro-life and pro-choice. It’s the two extreme sides which really put things into perspective (or not).
If you want to hear an “extreme” perspective, here is one of my favorite quotes by Dr. Horatio Storer (19th century Harvard graduate): “Women generally lack intelligence and stability. Their sex lies at the foundation, physiologically and pathologically, of much of the mental derangement that occurs in women… women suffered from transient insanity at the commencement of each pregnancy and that pregnant women at all times were subject to grave mental and physical derangement”. Storer used this to justify his stand that women should not make any kind of decisions regarding abortion.
What about the rights of the father? I understand that it’s the woman’s body but the father’s flesh and blood is alive and he should have at least a say in all of this.
The father isn’t the one that carries the fetus for nine months, and all the risks of pregnancy with it. It’s the woman that does that.
In an ideal relationship, the father would have his input listened to by the woman, but there are too many relationships where the father’s input or knowledge of the pregnancy poses real harm to the woman. See the statistics on the causes of deaths of pregnant women—one of the leading causes of death is domestic violence.
Screw the men. They are good for nothing—
After all, the women got themselves impreganted all by themselves! Why do we even need men in the first place!
On referring to women as “”pre-pregnant” — check out Dan Savage’s take on that, under “Straight Rights” update… food for thought.
Imperfection is what you define the interpretation of the word to yourself or others. For example, to many women’ eyes, a bottle of milk is imperfect while natural breastfeeding is perfect and blessed.
Julie, I’m curious. What’s your thought on this not-so-latest news? I gather that if people are okay with this method, I’d guess that they’re okay about a Deaf couple trying to concieve a Deaf child. Actually, they have to be okay with it if they support the “Designer babies” method.
Umm, let us not forget that doctors have INCORRECTLY diagnosed babies with varies maladies. Babies that were diagnosed with having an “imperfection” only to be born perfectly healthy.
JT, that baby Gauvin died, right? That’s what I heard but I don’t know if it’s true.
Yes, Gauvin did die - he had a heart defect. I believe he was about a year old at the time. The original article linked to in this post is from 2002; at the time I collected many articles about it from around the world.