Tu firmamento del azul.
Tus bosques muy sombrios.
Sembrados tan magnificios.
Montanas muy bravios.America, America
Con tu fraternidad.
Del mar al mar, el dios ha,
Creado libertad.America Linda - King Platypus
Your sky of blue.
Your forests, so shadowy,
Croplands so magnificent,
Mountains so bold.America, America,
With your brotherhood.
From sea to sea, the Lord has
Created liberty.
My deaf family and I have been in America for a few years now. I love life as a American. I had a sordid past. Today, there are times when I want to ascend the highest mountain if not the top of the Washington Monument and scream, “Dios, Thank God, Almighty, I’m free at last.”However, I’m saddened to see how spoiled and litigious some deaf Americans have become.
Take, for example, the recent class-action lawsuit filed by the National Association of the Deaf on behalf of three football fans. With all due respect to NAD, this lawsuit may be questionable. This action among others may suggest that the NAD is an important, influential organization that doesn’t have its priorities in check.
The lawsuit contends that the Washington Redskins team is violating the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) by failing to provide captioning for the deaf during football games. This is true. The ADA says that the facility must provide accommodations.
But with that said,
- Did you know that there is a school outside of Guadalajara that forbids its deaf students to play football (soccer) simply because they are deaf?
- Did you know that there are many deaf individuals who live in Eastern Europe who sign to each other under restaurant tables for fear of reprisal?
- Did you know that traditional relay services via TTY (and not VRS) have just become available to deaf New Zealanders?
- Did you know that most deaf people in the world have never been to a football game, let alone any live professional sporting event?
- Did you forget that most deaf people in the world live in poverty and have average life spans that are half of that of the average American?
- Did you know that my son didn’t have a sign language interpreter on his first day of university?
- Did you know that my deaf neighbor who is a wheelchair user got fired from his job because of the unreliability of the Metro elevator at Federal Triangle?
- Did you know that a deaf woman, two nights ago, was wrongfully arrested by the local police and unable to communicate her innocence until 3 hours later because she was handcuffed?
Este tipo de vida moderna sordo. ¿Está para mi?
Este tipo de vida moderna sordo. ¿Está para libre?
I try to stay ahead, I try to stay on top
I try to play the part, but somehow I forget
Just what I’m doing it for and why I want more
This type of modern, deaf life - Is it for me?
This type of modern, deaf life - Is it for free?
The ostrich often buries its head in the sand, and sometimes the flag.
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113 Comments
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I think some good discussion will arise from this particular blog entry.
However, I think it’s important to immediately point out that the Redskins and Fed Ex Field are already in violation of the ADA because the law says that accommodations, i.e. captioning, must be provided.
Rob-
what is there to caption at a live football game?
Deaf
I’m no football expert but I’m guessing that if I were at a game, I’d want to understand the justifications made for certain penalties or the names of the speakers, singers or marching bands performing at half time.
I’m sure there are some diehard football fans here who can help me out here.
It’s just like I said in the “Redskins: Why do they keep failing?” blog:
(#19079) | 2006-09-25 17:08:26
This is an ADA issue because public accommodations such as football stadiums are required to provide auxiliary aids and services which includes closed captioning.
Synder and the Redskins have so much revenues and they cannot use the undue financial burden for not modifying the TV screens to include closed captioning.
This lawsuit may not only benefit deaf people but hearing people who can read the captioning if the noise is too loud for them to hear the announcements? Same thing in bars and restaurants that have TVs.
Juanita, you write beautifully and the stories you share with us are always extremely personal and insightful. I agree with you that Deaf Americans don’t realize how lucky they are. I know I didn’t until I was a Peace Corps Volunteer in Kenya. I left America to serve in the Peace Corps because I was sick and tired of America. I moved to Kenya expecting to love it and continue living abroad for the rest of my life. After a few months, I realized how wrong I was. I missed the access I enjoyed in America - captioning on TV, interpreters, TTYs, etc. I was (and am) so lucky to have been born in America and given the things I was.
That said, while we should be mindful of our luck, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t continue to fight for improving our quality of life. Although Deaf America is privileged in many aspects, we still lack a great many things. It would be wrong to accept things as they are. If some people want captioning at a football game, then they should do what they can to get it.
Are you saying that because things are worse in other parts of the world, Americans should be satisfied with what they have? That we shouldn’t be trying to make things better for ourselves? I find that offensive.
Perhaps you are not a sports fan. This is not a “ridiculous” law suit as you call it. The results, if favorable, will go beyond Fed Ex field and the 3 people named in the law suit. Alot of deaf people - not just guys, but women, children, families - love sports and attend sporting events. All of them will benefit - whether they are watching baseball, hockey, soccer, basketball, or any other sport.
Many of the things that people with disabilities have gained (and perhaps lost as well) have been the result of law suits. If people did’t file complaints or law suits, then the employers, governments, public accommodations etc., wouldn’t bother to comply with the laws. I don’t think there is anything wrong with expecting the law to be enforced.
Here it is: They don’t have to bend over backwards for you. 69,997 sports fan who can hear and 3 who can’t. Now, whose money do you think will do the talking here? All the Redskins have to do is make a reasonable accommodation, and that’s it. And here’s the other thing: if you need captions to attend a sporting event, perhaps first you should get sterilized so you can’t reproduce and infect the world with your stupidity.
Do you honestly think that there are ONLY 3 deaf sports fan? That we are the only people who would benefit from captioning? That hearing people might APPRECIATE having captions as well?
Think!
Oh, and when you’re 80 and your hearing aid is broken and you can’t hear the sports game.. don’t come complaining here!
Juanita, I love your writing, but not your perspective. In America we have these freedoms because we worked for them for nearly 200 years, and we must keep on working for total access and total equality, and then other countries will model after us for their own freedoms. Only when we show them how it is possible can they go to their own governments and say, “Why not us, too?” A deeper implication is: “We are equal to our other citizens. Do not discount us because we are deaf.”
A special note for Lynette: (assuming you are a real person) what if you became deaf, or your child was born deaf, then what? Could you in honesty accept the limitations that go along with that and not grumble about it?
As, Rob said this will make an interesting topic for debate.
Lynette is correct. The ADA law says that reasonable accomidations must be made. How does Shane know the redskins dont have an Emergency Action Plan (EAP) this is required by law and they may already have things in there on how to address the fans for emergency public service announcements. So therefore the EAP may already include the reasonable accomidation for these so called public service annoucements.
Shane most likey wants a TV in front of him so he can see replays of the big play he just missed cuz he was talking to a friend sitting next to him.
I am suprised Shane never went after this issue at RIT with the hockey games he used to attend and not being able to hear the corner crew chanting along with some of the other public service annoucements that were made at the games there.
“Shane most likey wants a TV in front of him so he can see replays of the big play he just missed cuz he was talking to a friend sitting next to him.”
That is your opinion, not fact.
you are making assumptions about Shane. Unless your name is Shane Feldman, worry about yourself instead of mis-representing him.
many of the other countries do not consider equal access as a priority. Since the 90’s the UN in cooperation with WFD and other organizations on behalf of those with disabilities have been working on (unfortunately, based on customary) setting up model legislation for countries to follow.
The legislation as poor as ADA being enacted, it doesn’t seem many places get much reprisals?
We, the deaf people MUST have the same benefits as everyone else. Since ADA went in effect, we should not hesitate to take advantage of our rights we are fighting for. Of course, there and will be many battles to fight in the years and months ahead. However, they will worth it. I do empathize with underprivileged people out there in other countries. Their time will come.
There is great room for improvement of services for the deaf in USA. However, it is when people choose the small things to fight for compared to big things. Like something thing that NAD would have been better off fighting then this silly football closed captioning issue; would have been getting weather radios that have text messages sent so deaf people can be aware of inclimate weather and other emergencies that are broadcasted over the weather radios. These devices are used to communicate information for bad weather, civil denfense emergencies, public health emergencies and other events such as amber alerts. This services is not available to deaf people and is much more important that CC the fans screaming at a silly redskins game.
I just guess it is the level of education that some deaf people have an are aware of how to pick their battles and what issues are more important for deaf people. The community has no center point or common ground… there is no on group leading the charge for deaf people and deaf peoples rights on important topics.
NAD is a joke… the only people that really know of NAD are deaf people… hearing people dont know of NAD and could careless if it exists.
Deaf - you keep thinking that the closed captioning issue is only for deaf people. It’s not. Hearing people can benefit from it too if the noise becomes too loud for them to hear the announcements. Think outside the box, will you?
This has been on my mind for quite a while, and as someone who is in both worlds, hoh,I have to consider the fact that I take for granted the things I can hear and not have to rely on things such as captioning for things that I miss during, say, a football game with loud background interference. What I agree with NAD and Shane, is that during a football game when there is a public service announcement there is NO way for the deaf to know what to do, where to go and how to go about it.
I don’t see what the problem is, when the costs of handling such accomodations as a captioning screen in a stadium like the redskins stadium are not significant. Keep in mind the average football ticket is over 100 dollars, the average hot dog is 5 bucks, they charge 5 bucks or more for soda and more for beer. If they can charge high prices for high profit margins, then they can surely afford accomodations for the customers they are servicing.
Additionally, not only do deaf people benefit from captioning, but the elderly do as well, like my father. Captioning is used in bars, where hearing people are so loud that they can’t hear the televisions. I am grateful for captioning, I am grateful for the things such as interpreters and note takers in colleges. But also, im confused about what the NAD wants specifically in their lawsuit…is it captioning of sports commentary like you see on tv in the stadium?? or is it captioning for PSA, public service announcments? I’d like some clarity on this.
If it was not for me being deaf, I would have moved to Europe in a split second. Something about Europe intrigues me that I can’t express in words although I’ve never been there. What’s holding me back? The ADA and Civil Rights laws in America that’ll protect us when we need to assert our rights.
While I remain loyal to NAD, I question its legal team in prioritizing their cases. I understand that any violation of ADA or Civil Rights should get equal attention. I hope more attention is paid to cases where EVERY deaf American is affected. For example, interpreting agencies, hospitals, police/stations, employment, housing, firepeople/station.
I say this from experience, a traumatic experience, actually, several years ago. I was victimized by two hearing suspects as well as the policemen and their station in a very populated deaf community. Too traumatic yet I managed to have my two friends accompany me while fighting for my rights for 4 days because one, I want their support and two, they’re my witness. They were shocked with everything they saw. Because of the delay, damages have been done and cannot be undone.
It was so painful to take action that I decided to let the whole thing slide by. A few months later, there was big news on the front page of newspaper that a deaf black man (I believe to be uneducated) was shot and killed. Someone from police station said, “Everything happened so fast that we’re not able to provide an interpreter.” That was a lie because I fought nail and tooth for an interpreter for 4 full days. Old memory began pouring and I bawled out.
Thereafter, I met with this supervising attorney, who used to work for NAD, she was appalled when learning about my case. She did some research and found out that 2 years before me, there was a settlement agreement by the same police station and she filed with DOJ and Civil Rights Division on my behalf.
She advised me to contact NAD for representation, which I did, and NAD, for some reason, didn’t take the case even if the settlement agreement was violated when it was committed against me and then the death of this deaf black man.
I went on a long search for a lawyer. While every lawyer I met admitted that I have a case, they declined services and I suspect it is due to unwillingness to provide an interpreter as they are bound by the law. As the limitation of statute was about to expire, I was fortunate to be granted a court appointed lawyer by this wonderful judge. He and the court clerk were surprised I wasn’t able to retain a lawyer for my case.
For me to hear that NAD is representing these 3 deaf people only makes me shake my head in disbelief. It makes me wonder what criteria NAD follows in deciding what and what not to accept the case.
Imagine how many uneducated deaf Americans out there go unnoticed/neglected and they’re the very ones who really need NAD’s assistance and involvement. I would give up to allow NAD to represent those with less education if they have too many cases to handle.
I wish I didn’t have to go through what I did, but I did and being educated helps me get to where I need to be for the case to be heard not only for me but for all deaf members in that community, especially so in honor of this deaf black man.
People, forget it. Juanita Garcia’s blogs are one-way. She posts then never replies to the readers’ comments.
Abe Pollin, the previous owner of the MCI/Chinatown ( called the Verizon Center now) sport arena, done very thoughtful approach like contacting the deaf and disabled community to see what they would like to have such accomodations and accessibilities within the entertainment complex. Pollins had a real sense of embracing the importance of community involvement and treat patrons equally.
Dan Synder, the real arrogant and insensitive owner of the Washington Redskins ought to KNOW better than defying the reasonable requests within the existing law(s). He also broke several laws in the past like secretly adding the stadium seats within the disability area and unsuccessfully bribed the National Park Service for cutting down the protected “mature’ trees on his property.
Synder steered the WMATA (Metro) to make sure that fans have to cough up $25 parking fees whenever they just hop off from several Metrorail stations away (up to three Metrorail stations). So he could clamp down on fans getting away with the $25 parking fee.
Synder is all about $$$$$$.
We ought not to reflect ourselves to other countries depriving other deaf citizens. We are the richest country in the world which the megacorporations getting richer every year at the expense of working-class populace.
The ADA law is not a perfect law itself which we have to be vigorous on our part to make sure that law is enforceable within the community at large for accomodating the disabled citizens.
Remmy the phrase of “Equal, but Seperate” within the public education funding for the white and Negro children. The evidence of inequality for funding the Negro schools led to the legal landmark for the dissolvement of segretation.
Back in that day (50s), many white Americans dismissed the cries about the real inequality of school fundings among the Negro schools. The majority of Americans realized HOW WRONG they were about the so-called equality, but seperatable accommodation.
Does the Washington Redskins and Synder gave the real discount(s) to deaf fans in the past to make up for lack of accomodation? If not, Synder ask for it!
Who isnt all about $$$$$$$ this is america… the land of $$$$$$ the american dream at the expense of others… first it was the slaves… then it was the european immigrants… now it is the mexicans.
those mega corporations have moved on to china the land of cheap labor and no environmental regulations why cuz of $$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$ money equals the american dream.
Juanita, the details that you listed that happened across the world IS NOT MY PROBLEM. It is YOUR problem! We and the Deaf & Disabled communities fought to make America the most livable places to live for us all. That is what we did with our pursuit of happiness in this country. And we did it. and we can push for more rights that can be afforded to us all.
Whatever happened in Fiji is not my problem. Its people has to do something about it. Don’t try to put the guilt trip on us just because we fought to get what we wanted and won while you failed.
University of Texas in Austin has captions. An UNIVERSITY! It speaks volumes about itself since the Washington Redskins is professional football team!
R-
Help me understand this. How is that Juanita’s problem?
The deaf community in many of these other countries are not as privileged as America is. These deaf people do not have laws like we have to assert our rights. I am certain their countries are like ours many, many years ago as they often lag behind. We need to be empathetic and supportive to deaf people abroad.
Juanita’s quote, “I’ve had a sordid past.” I am under the impression that it was not pleasant and that life was hard. From her experience, this issue about football, eventhough she recognized the violation, seems to appear less important than the issues she had outlined when comparing them.
Let’s face the reality. We have our own sets of problems. I’m sorry that some Deaf people does not have “privileges” as we do in this country but that does NOT mean that we have to stop fighting for accessibility and equal opportunity just because they have it harder than us!
I can empathize but they have to search within themselves to find the courage to speak out and make a difference. We cannot help all the time, we can only empower.
Meanwhile, I personally think it is tasteless of Juanita trying to slam some Deaf Redskins fans for trying to make an effort in forcing the FedEx Field (which is a new stadium, by the way) to update the accessibility.
Cheers,
R-
Nowhere in Juanita’s blog did she say we ought stop fighting for accessibility and equal opportunity.
I feel that what Juanita posted on her blog was not a slam about the group. These issues she mentioned, like Allison said it better, were far more horrifying. Some she mentioned were a problem in our own very country. She, just as others, is entitled to to present her view. As a result, it opened a healthy dialogue by the naysayers and yeasayers. She posted with a good intention.
The key statement in her blog was how the NAD organization doesn’t have their priorities in check when it comes to litigations. As we know, NAD legal team do not have enough resources to take all cases and the question remains how they decide to take one case over the other.
Something for NAD to take into consideration for the future.
Ridor-
did you ever complete your college degree yet? it sure sounds like you havent; none of your statements make sense. you couldnt even handle the 12 year program at gally for a BS or BA degree.
so ridor learn how to think and stop being a self centered jerk that acts like a know it all.
Katherine well said, hopfully you have opened Ridors EYE’S.
deaf, spoken like a true coward hiding behind a monitor using very general word!
BTW, I have two BA degrees. But again, that is none of your business, though.
And evidently, you missed the whole point.
R-
Ridor,
You’re technically right. To each their own.
Just because the things Juanita mentions exist doesn’t mean the Redskins franchise is right in continuing to violate law and steamroll over deaf Redskins fans’ desire to root for their team.
At the same time, however, the injustices she mentions are far more horrifying than the one the lawsuit addresses, and we have something in common with their victims.
So I leave you with the words of Pastor Martin Neimoller, who also once said transgressions against other people weren’t his problem.
“When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.”
I completely agreed with what you said, allison. We can only empower but not to help completely. These people in their countries has to find their own courage to resolve the issues.
That is what we did in the last 300 years in this country. We have our own issues and we find the means to resolve the issues.
And for Juanita to slam the Deaf Redskins fans by trying to downplay the lawsuit is quite offensive, IMO.
R-
can someone address my question? is there an official press release regarding this lawsuit? everyone keeps going off on a tangent.
From the NAD’s press release: “The complaint asks the court to order the Washington Redskins and FedEx Field to provide and display captioning on the scoreboards and video monitors for all announcements made over the public address system, including plays and penalties called, safety and emergency information, and any other announcements.”
You can find the press release itself here.
Today’s the first day of DAW (Deaf Awareness Week). Thank you for posting a blog to remind ourselves that the United States Deaf and Hard of Hearing folks are fortunate to live here and to be served as a model to other countries. Please allow other countries to learn from us — fighting for our rights and embrace our culture and values of freedom.
Let’s continue to celebrate and educate others.
Bonus: A website from NAD explaining DAW http://www.nad.org/site/pp.asp.....p;b=180409
Cheers!
Juniata,
Your style of inviting us to participate is interesting. If I have it right, the gist of your discourse is not actually this “I’m saddened to see how spoiled and litigious some deaf Americans have become”, however, the passage of ADA and the priviledges we Deaf in America have access to, there is more that still needs to be done - the lack of Interpreters for your son at Georgetown, the firing of your wheelchair neighbor, and, etcetera.
Can the postings stay relevant? The replies have gone entirely way too personal and I can’t stand how the personal insults seem to just pop out of no-where. Can deaf culture maintain any respect for itself?
Why are there all these personal insults? this is a small community, why is there the personal insults, such as Deaf insulting Ridor about his college education? what does THAT have ANYTHING to do with the topic at hand? and what, if RIDOR did complete his degree would make the discussion any different??????????????
Remember, the ADA mandates that captioning is provided regarding PSA only in PUBLIC arena’s. The redskins stadium is NOT a public arena. In NYC only the 2 and 3 subway lines have adequate subway trains with LED signs that would accomodate the deaf, notifying stops and street names. All of the other lines do not have this accomodation, are deaf people complaining about it? no. On the 2 and 3 lines, the LED signs still would not reasonably accomodate your average deaf person with what to do in an emergency situation. They are not designed to run a caption specific to a situation at hand–I just don’t see nothing done about it, because face it, it is a hearing world. The only way youre gonna get something changed if you hang your balls out there like Shane and the NAD did.
I realize that this topic can get extreme, but if all it takes to remedy this problem with a simple captioning screen, then what is the big deal?
Amen, Carl! Thank you!
R-
This action by NAD and Shane might be a good thing to improve access for deaf people at football games and sporting events. However, isnt NAD missing the bigger picture? Carl and Deaf brought up how PSA nation wide is not properly addressed. why is NAD focused on a football staduim issue? instead of working with the government to address PSA issues on emergency radios, subways, in airports, malls, and other places where people are in the masses.
does this really merit a lawsuit?
just my two cents
no MJH it does not merit a lawsuit, and you raise a good point, since the NAD is a national organization, why is it not redirecting it’s lawsuit against the NFL instead? Does it not have a strong enough legal team to match? Is there a history of NAD requesting captioning without resorting to litigation? several questions unanswered and it’s all hearsay.
Since the NFL franchises out each team, it has the authority to mandate captioning in the stadiums provided. Even if the NAD won a lawsuit, the NFL OWNS the right to say what is acceptable and what is not, since it is PRIVATELY owned. That is why i think this lawsuit is a bit awkward and mis-directed. If NAD wants to represent deaf people on a national scale, it needs to reconsider why it is suing the redskins locally. More importantly, why, considering the importance is the NAD suing of all organizations, the Redskins? Don’t you think that PSA are more important in areas such as transportation, public areas or other areas that serve the majority of the population.
I don’t know the extent of NAD’s legal strategy and I don’t have much confidence that most of the people posting their comments do. Unless you have more facts that you’re not sharing with us e.g. “it doesn’t merit a lawsuit” I’m not sure how I can agree with your statement at all.
At the very least, if nothing else, I would imagine that NAD picks only cases they feel can set a legal precedent. By way of a legal precedent, if the Redskins agree to provide captioning, then that may make it easier for other parties, down the road, to point to the case as a analogy when seeking accessibilty for other sporting / community / or social functions.
That said - let’s stop harping on NAD. Shane and his group took a stand and what happens? The deaf community is tearing his group down? Nice.
With the points you made I agree. However, deaf community a few people make not. Herh herh herh.
Nobody is tearing Shane and the NAD down, the debate is whether resorting to litigation is the appropriate measure for this (captioning) to happen. I agree on the principal, but dis-agree with the action the NAD has done
First off, why do you think we are lucky today? By keeping shut, acknowledging that we’re lucky, and not pursuing justice? Should Martin Luther King Jr. kept his mouth shut and be happy because he got 3 meals a day when other blacks couldnt?
Unfortunately, sometimes it takes a lawsuit to make people listen (I am sure other avenues were executed but it was probably ignored). This world is ignorant as ****, and we have to grab and bust balls to get justice.
If we all deaf folks were like what this blog suggests, we wouldnt have even an iota of the accomodations given us this day. And just because we’re lucky is not a ******* valid point in why we would shut up. To sin by silence makes cowards of us.
“Without struggle, there is no progress” — Frederick Douglas
“If we all deaf folks were like what this blog suggests, we wouldnt have even an iota of the accomodations given us this day. And just because we’re lucky is not a ******* valid point in why we would shut up. To sin by silence makes cowards of us.”
Well, Bluebird… as a deaf person who is part of both worlds, deaf & hearing. I believe there are certain battles that warrant litigation, however this is not one of them. Quite frankly, I’m embarrassed by this whole situation and the attention the media is awarding Shane and the NAD.
I have been receiving emails and forwards from friends and acquaintances on this topic since it made the news. We, as deaf people have struggled and worked hard to gain respect among our peers and the accommodations we are provided with today. (ADA) This is single-handedly undoing years of hard work. I am embarrassed by what I’ve read in the media and on other Blog sites in regards to providing captioning at Fed Ex.
I’d like to share a few exerpts from several blogs:
“I hope I’m not being insensitive and if there is someone on this board who is deaf then perhaps you could explain.
After all, the action is on the field, the officials signal the penalties, the scoreboard gives the time and the scores and the timeouts so what is left?”
“The irony is that I often mute the commentators to watch the game.”
“Re: Group sues Redskins seeking closed-captioning
Quote: “I thought deaf people were there to get you drinks“
“What in the heck are these fans talking about anyway? I go to all the games also and I don’t think anybody can really hear the refs. Why don’t they try looking at the ref for his call like everyone else or are they blind too? As far as the T.V.’s, nobody can really hear those either. Everybody just stands around and watches them on their way for bathroom or concessions. Nobody is there to listen to the game, they are there to WATCH the game.”
“I can understand captioning for referee calls, but every play? Also, who sues about this? These three deaf persons choose to attend the game. They accept the conditions. What’s next, will someone sue because it rained and they got wet during the game? Too cold? If you don’t like their policies, don’t attend the game.”
Keep in mind, that these are just the “soft” comments. I didn’t feel the harsher ones were appropriate to pass along. I’m not saying that I agree with these opinions. However, I feel that attending a professional sporting event is a luxury. One that many people cannot afford, deaf or hearing. It is pointless to caption play by plays for a football event. The stadium noise levels alone prevent anyone except the person sitting next to the announcer from hearing what is being said. Captioning - if its really that necessary – then stay home and watch it on your t.v. or go to a bar. All the really important information – emergency information is posted on the large screens and t.v. monitors located throughout the stadium. That’s the important part… the rest is right there on the field where fans eyes belong focused on the action.
There are so many other important fights we could be picking instead of wasting the media’s attention on something so un-important and petty. I think that is what has the majority of the “PROFESSIONAL” deaf community outraged and appalled.
This could have been ended a long time ago, but the question is when will the accommodations being offered – be enough?
“Spokesman Karl Swanson said the team considered a proposal to purchase captioning equipment, but the proposal was rejected by Feldman. Feldman was concerned about a possible 10-minute delay”
I’m not trying to put down Shane for taking a stand, I just think the effort would’ve been better used elsewhere.
I’m intrigued by your comment.
I’m choosing to interpret (although she may disagree) Juanita’s blog not as an admonishment about the lawsuit, but as a (all too valid) reminder that there are bigger fish to fry when it comes to equalizing the privileges allowed to both deaf and hearing people.
But you have started your comment by saying you’re embarrassed. Because you excerpt other people’s opinions, I’m not sure whether you disagree with the lawsuit or whether you’re just embarrassed by the attention it’s brought.
I’m not. I’m aware of the really inappropriate comments out there, and I think it’s good stuff. Now you (deaf or hearing) will see the gap of understanding when it comes to defining “accomodation” and “rights to access.” You will also see the level of frustration when people continue to poo-poo efforts to gain these, which are already lawfully afforded to Americans.
You write: “We, as deaf people have struggled and worked hard to gain respect among our peers and the accommodations we are provided with today.” Just how is this detrimental to respect and accomodation?
Respect is something that is afforded the individual, not a group. Respecting a group as a whole, for whatever reason, is simply positive bigotry. So I don’t think respect is the issue here.
Access is.
“What in the heck are these fans talking about anyway? I go to all the games also and I don’t think anybody can really hear the refs.” This quote isn’t much different than the random hearing person telling me “You’re deaf? Oh, you’re lucky. You’re not missing much anyway.”
You write: “There are so many other important fights we could be picking instead of wasting the media’s attention on something so un-important and petty. I think that is what has the majority of the “PROFESSIONAL” deaf community outraged and appalled.”
So, what would you suggest that isn’t going to be petty and worth the media’s time? Because it seems to me, when a Paris Hilton headline shares the same newspaper page as reports about bombings and a failing educational system in this American culture, there’s plenty of ways to define petty.
And the majority of the professional deaf community? I didn’t realize you were the spokesperson. Someone must’ve forgotten to CC me on that memo.
Mmm. Also I thought Juanita was making a not too subtle point that NAD would be more credible as a organization if it engaged in more social activism across the world, and not just about captions at football game.
Across the world? Please.
r-
Can you elaborate more on the proposal that Feldman rejected? I think a lot of us were not aware of this.
Once Proud to be Deaf:
Your logic is warped. First of all, no human being cannot manipulate the weather so there’s no possible way that anyone can sue the Redskins because it’s too cold or rainy. So, stop playing dumb here.
Just because we have the ADA, we should sit still and consider ourselves lucky? No, sireee. There’s always room for improvement and I don’t care what the hearing people thinks or does. You seem to be so concerned on how they see you or what they think of you.
In the sport of football, there will be calls that will always be challenged and reversed. That’s the exciting part of the game and if it in the playoffs, I think deaf people, no matter how much their incomes are, deserve the right to know exactly what the referees will call - just like everyone else. So, it’s like what Allison said - access is the issue here. Besides, why do you even think attending a pro football game is considered a luxury? For who?
It is 2006 and ADA has been around for over 15 years.
I once believed that businesses, big and small, would know what the “right thing” to do is and that they would happily comply once they knew how to execute compliance. Nowadays, it’s almost easy to accept that we live in a country that is ruled by apathy and maybe even resentment towards the disabled community as evidenced by some of the comments here.
As much as I dislike it, it’s becoming clearer that litigation is the only means available to obtain civil rights because no one is enforcing our rights. Only when we make these stories heard will government entities like the courts, the DOJ and the EEO really listen.
But there really aren’t very many people out there who have the means or the courage to drag themselves through what must undoubtedly be an unpleasant experience and where there is no guarantee of success.
Please remember, the NAD is not acting only on behalf of a handful of deaf sports fans - they’re doing it for every one of us.
My heart goes out to the National Association of the Deaf. They do good work and really do have our best interests at heart.
Captions would not benefit just us, but also other hearing people as well. I bet there are a lot of hearing poeple who would appreciate having captions too!
I think sometimes when we debate this stuff, we forget that so-called deaf-specific accommodations really benefit everybody. For instance, at LaGuardia Airport, they now make all announcements on LCD Tv’s posted throughout the airport. I’ve seen hearing people use it too.
In the gym, there are captioned tvs. I see MORE people around the captioned tvs. They like it, I can see. They have their iPod/Walkman on, using one of those cardio machines and reading the captions on TV.
I think NAD picked this fight because it is one they can win- that is very apparent to me. The small battles count too. The Redskins cannot claim that it is unreasonable as there are other stadiums that use captioning, and captions are everywhere today, in bars, etc. They don’t have much of a reason NOT to put captions in. They certainly have enough of a revenue to afford it!
I agree. The “design for all” concept is better known as “universal design”. Curb cuts, door handles (instead of knobs), USB ports on the front of CPUs instead of the back, captioning, and even vibrating alarm clocks are being used by everyone, hearing and deaf.
It’s a win-win situation.
Yeah, it’s just that the defendant of this potentially important litigation happens to be the Redskins. It sounds ludricious in the eyes of many. But, the principle stands, the stadium should be aurally and visually accessible for everyone. It is the most expensive football team in the entire NFL. So, if a vocal minority can make noise (Yes, I notice the irony already but lemme just make a point here) against the big dog, we’re making progress. Redskins is viewed by many as the obscenely rich team, akin to the New York Yankees. It certainly would set an example for other teams to follow.
I commend NAD for doing this. This is no small feat. I can tell you this that I’m no football fan and yet, I don’t need to keep up with the stats to know that the true score of a game is to be enjoyed by everyone, equally. No ifs, ands, or buts.
Last week, I showed blueprints of the soon to be a new addition to my existing house to my Realtor. He quizzed me on many tiny things. He saw three steps required to get to the house’s first floor from the garage. He asked me what’s wrong with a ramp. He said same concept goes to back door of the house into the yard, why not a ramp instead of three steps? He struck me into thinking more about universal design. I am all for it as it is a way to grow resale value plus it will benefit everyone.
and bars and some coffee places, too.
Two reasons why several small & big businesses are not in compliance today:
1. Local & state governments are not providing adequate information & resources on the ADA and their obligation to remove barriers for customers with disabilities.
2. Immigrant-owned businesses are growing in the U.S. and are not educated on disability rights.
Shane grew up going to Redskins games, my question is, “why now.” I’m not going against Shane and his choice of action, however I have to say “tough luck” Hearing fans cannot hear at football games too. They even bring radios so they can possibly get some information. I personally, just use my sidekick, watch the game and have fun. If I wanted captions, I’d stay home and watch it on tv.
I went to college basketball games. Even went to Mystics games as well. When they have that pledge of allegiance, I do not stand up if they do not flash the words. That is my way of protest for their lack of accessibility.
Why did I go? Because I enjoyed watching the games up front.
hell, I had a date with a guy when we went to watch the Washington Capitals play some team. I think Tampa Bay or someone else. Why? Because we can.
Oh, I attended the Jay Leno Show in Los Angeles with friends many years ago — I requested the interpreter and NBC was, by God, accomodating. Even worse, when Jay Leno talked about the castration, the interpreter signed it in visible manner which caused “Oohs!” and “Aahs!” in the audience that prompted Jay to interrupt us and asked for the sign of ‘castration’ — this interpeter said, ‘I’m not going to say this on the national tv!’
Jay agreed and laughed. Why did I go? Because I can. This applies the same idea to Shane because he can and wanted to.
R-
Some laws are made to protect the individual’s relationship with the organization. ADA is one of them. Do not include emotion when prioritizing things or stating the reason(s). If a rule is broken, then it’s broken no matter what.
Did you know that the handful of countries already study our ADA laws for their own disabled citizens which they could provide accomodations and accessibilities?
Several deaf individuals from Bangaladesh came to America last eight years ago and made the model of existing American laws - ADA, Section 504 and other more. So they could persuade the home country’s government.
The deaf and hearing French group came to Washington, DC and NYC last two months ago for interviewing countless deaf individuals and government officials, ex. FCC regarding the VRS and television captionings.
Believe it or not, France does not have any standards or regular fundings for television captionings or VRS.
Our country is a symbol of deaf liberation for all over the world on many fronts.
In addition to what RLM has said, every small win that is made on behalf of equal access builds up, brick by brick, a fortress of protection for our rights as citizens. Future legislators and lawyers point to these decisions as support for additional laws.
I also am really disturbed by some deaf individuals ganging up on Ridor.
I did not read latest postings since Sunday afternoon.
Ridor happen to be real thoughtful of deaf issues in many ways. He happens to be logical and responsive to deaf issues facing all of us. He is known for fighting on the behalf of “little guys”.
We ought to practice “civility” among ourselves.
Kenny Walker,
Where art thou O’Brother?????
Are you ready for football?
I am bothered by all the attacking, flamming and attempt of defamation of character on here. Cant we all just get along and have an intelligent debate?
I agree with what Rob said about design for “all”, it is funy how hearing people benefit from a lot of technologies that have come about to help deaf people become more independent.
I cant wait till the day that an eletronic interp is invented… hearing people are gonna be all over that one like it is the greatest thing since sliced bread; it means they wont have to take notes for meetings they ll have a machine that will take a voice and spit out text, or they wont have to type anymore.
There is another thing to be said here… Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world. Indeed it is the only thing that has… Margart Mead (from where the purple lilacs grow)
The fans have the power to make the changes… they pay the Red Skins pay checks and along with the owners paychecks… maybe it is time that americans woke up and realized that they dont need to be supporting people that dont give back to the community and are all about getting more money out of people that come to support their paychecks.
what could be more powerfull a lawsuit or a huge organized boycott of a couple of Skins Games? Which would get more public attention? Just something to think about… I personally dont think suing is always the best way to acheive goals.
my two cents
It seems there are a lot of lawyers or lawyer-wannabes on this list. Can someone give me the exact language of the ADA that requires such captioning? If it were so clear, I really don’t think there would be a lawsuit. I think it depends on one’s interpretation of a section of the ADA (and no, I don’t know which section it is exactly). And I am willing to bet that NAD is arguing one version or interpretation and the Redskins another. I do believe that some newspaper articles said that the Redskin’s attorney stated that the issue of captioning had previously been addressed and that they didn’t have to provide the captions. Does anyone know what that means - was there another lawsuit against some other stadium or arena? I don’t think the issue is so black and white as one would like to believe. Which then explains why the lawsuit is needed - to settle the issue.
Read about the Title III (Public Accommodations)’s auxiliary aids & services and effective communication requirements at:
http://www.ada.gov/taman3.htm#III-4.3000
http://www.ada.gov/taman3.htm#III-4.3200
http://www.ada.gov/taman3.htm#III-4.3300
I believe Baltimore Ravens’ M&T Bank Stadium has captioning available on its screen because it is city-owned while the Redskins is privately owned.
And no, you don’t need a law degree to understand this - very easy to find this information on the web.
Title III of the ADA on ada.gov as maintained by the US Department of Justice.
Title III prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability in “places of public accommodation” (businesses and non-profit agencies that serve the public) and “commercial facilities” (other businesses).
Place of public accommodation means a facility, operated by a private entity, whose operations affect commerce and include the following: motion picture house, theater, concert hall, stadium, or other place of exhibition or entertainment.
Another interesting document to look at are the Title guidelines issued by the USDOJ regarding accessible stadiums. Note that nothing about captioning is mentioned.
I agree with what both Rob Rice and MJH had to say in regards to a “Universal Design” concept. Hearing people have benefited from technological advancements that were invented with deaf people in mind. I can see how hearing and deaf alike will benefit from having captioning of some sort provided in the stadiums. I just don’t agree with the idea of suing to accomplish this task. I’ve read in several reputable papers that Shane rejected several proposals that were offered by Snyder. How did it come to be that Shane as one, decided to represent all deaf people without asking us if the accommodations being offered by Snyder were not good enough? Now, please don’t get me wrong, I applaud Shane for taking a stand in something he believes in. It’s a reasonable request, this is why the ADA exists. The question is how far do we really have to take this? Isn’t the NAD supposed to be advocates for ALL deaf people? Shouldn’t they seek feedback from the community on issues of this nature, after all it does impact ALL deaf people.
The fact of the matter is NAD chose to go after a football stadium of all places. NAD is now being viewed by many in the media as being a legal predator. I think it’s worthwhile to mention that NAD also sued a little league baseball team that did not provide an interpreter to a deaf child last year. Did NAD decide that all was just peachy with the subways, airlines and every other real public facility and that they could move on to more petty cases and risk bad PR?
Wake up! It’s lawsuits like these that are making the lawmakers think twice about the validity, scope and effectiveness of the ADA. For them, it’s legal extortion and it gives ADA a bad name.
Here in the State of California, mom and pop businesses are being eaten alive by unsavory lawyers who are coming after them with insane stuff like,
While not knowing NAD’s true intent or strategy, if there is even one, these lawsuits unfortunately appear frivolous and have the potential to backfire in a big way. We could suffer as a result.
I’d love to know what NAD’s legal strategy is. But being a lawyer myself, my guess is that NAD and Shane cannot say a word until everyone’s had their day in court.
Yeah - those L.A. & San Diego business owners are fuming like hell.
Those “drive-by” lawsuits initiated by “professional” plantiffs are mostly unemployed losers who use their disability to get the easy way out of life. Not to mention their greedy and smarmy lawyers. Yeah, I agree - it’s tragic.
What’s more, from what I have read in the media, the NAD rejected proposals made by the Redskins that would have easily passed the “reasonableness” test.
But no, the NAD decided it would be unamendable - and that it would take Snyder to court.
The State of California tried to prevent stuff like this from happening with AB209. This bill would’ve given businesses (especially small ones) that made a good faith effort an opportunity to comply with ADA requirements 60 days after being warned of possible infractions - and only after those 60 days could they be sued.
The big picture?
We need questionable, high-profile cases like this to revive interest in the bill. Shakedowns of businesses and legal extortion is plain wrong.
Deaf Lawyer - can you explain more about the AB209 - any web references?
Exactly - what is the “reasonableness” test? There are several conflicting definitions - so can you elaborate on that?
Apparently Shane rejected the current Captioning process proposed because it delayed captions by 10 minutes, so at a football game, you need super fast caption. I dont even know if this technology exists since current captioning technology is lagging behind.
If it’s true that the captioning delay is by ten minutes, then it’s totally unacceptable. I am pretty sure there’s a better way out there.
Hold a sec, the Snyder company claimed that they made a proposal to Shane Feldman. But is it true? I dearly doubt so.
At this moment, we cannot ask Shane Feldman to talk about it because of ligitation pending but I suspect that the Snyder’s PR Office was turning the table on Shane by making false claims that they did make a proposal whereas there was none at all in the first place that prompted him to get the NAD to file a lawsuit.
R-
Some will argue that NAD is being too excessive, others will say that Litigation is the only way for laws to change, in other words, to make an impact, SUE.
Filing a complaint doesn’t seem to work anymore.
How true, Carl! Laws often change people’s attitudes or behaviors over years.
Unforunately, the effectiveness of ligitation is to get people’s attention to do something constructive.
Synder is a cheapstake when come to other people beside himself.
So Carl and RLM - what about taking the mature approach - exhausting every option before you pull out the big guns? Its like MJH mentioned below - treat people the way you in turn would like to be treated. By callng Snyder names nothing is getting accomplished, it only makes deaf people look immature and we will be resented once a change is implemented in the staidum (captioning). A 10 minute delay for captioning at a football game… I think that’s acceptable - It’s better than nothing and opens the doors for further improvement in the future. Everything you need to see anyways is on the field. If you are going to go to a game to watch the captions on the jumbotron - why not just watch it on your t.v. at home? The game is down there on the field.
what the hell do you think Snyder calls deaf people??????????? its a no brainer
That’s a mature comeback Carl. He probably calls us greedy idiots. Think about this, I’ve heard from a few friends that they plan to buy tickets to this weekend’s skins game just so they can go and protest the captioning isssue. This is quite a paradox, they are willing to pay $100+ for a ticket, to go to a game that doesn’t have captioning. Snyder himself will be the one profiting from the $ spent on the ticket not them.
Seems to me that people havent learned from history… How many major changes were made by lawsuits and how many major changes were made by social education… some examples would be Martin Luther King Jr, Ghandi, and recently the illegal immgrants in america to make changes for a better way of life. None of these groups used lawsuits or violent means to bring about change… thats what the uneducated do that dont want to put in the time or effort to make changes.
It is about approach and educating people… personally I think lawsuits are the apathy way of confronting important issues at hand. They quickly divide people, people get defensive, and this is what brings about hositility. Then ligitiation forces people to do something and they will resent these people for the changes that must be made as a result.
Calling Dan Synder names isnt going to do much… but if you can organize people and educate them about how he is an unfair and corrupt person… this will bring about changes… I still have faith that most of the american population does not like to support these types of people.
On another note, we do live in different times then Martin Luther King Jr, Ghandi, and other civil leaders… we have the internet, techonology they didnt have, and more people that are educated. A lot of these changes have brought about a culture of instant gratification. With the techonology that is available there is no reason why the NFL or other professional sports leagues or the Red Skins cannot make simple accomidations such as close captioning. It might take a few games to work it out, but it is do able.
I have to wonder it is how this whole issue has been approached from the start by both parties which has lead to the lawsuit or if Shane and crew decided to just start with the lawsuit? How you approch things equals the results you will get. If do something to someone unannnouced or are unwilling to work with someone to establish something… they will be very defensive right back and will not be willing to work with you. Remember treat those as you want to be treated.
Actually if you study the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960’s closely, it was successful because it employed a variety of methods, which included lawsuits.
While Martin Luther King Jr. wasn’t directly involved with lawsuits, there were numerous lawsuits during the ’60’s. Heck, even before the 60’s really… Brown vs Board of Education, anyone?
Unfortunately, the reality is, in general, society at large’s thinking will only change when their pocketbook takes a hit. Either that or they’re tossed in jail…
A good example is signers passing themselves off as interpreters. People can complain all they want about signers being unqualified, but people in general don’t really give a damn. I’m not talking about deaf people. I’m talking about hearing people who are ignorant about the deaf, and just plain don’t want to deal with us. It’s only when a law is passed penalizing BOTH the signer and the person who hired the signer, that they take the interpreting profession more seriously.
So, sometimes lawsuits ARE necessary.
We are not talking about segregation here - now that merits a lawsuit.. captioning at a football game - come on! No one can hear the PA announcer over the crowd noise anyways. You are not missing anything you cannot see on the field.
Communication segerates people!!!! I see shane started another blog on the same topic but related to low budget films.
The fact of the matter football only represents one small venue where deaf people are not given full access to PSA. You have to start someplace and work your way up. Nothing starts out at the top, or else we would live in a perfect world.
My question to NAD is and I know it will never be anwsered… maybe someone like Ridor can anwser this…
Why football??? why not more important topics where PSA actually could save the life of a deaf family or person… items such as were mentioned above in another post emergency weather radios with text, or PSA systems in high traffic areas such as subways, airports, and other places. Having access to PSA and other communications is a very important issue, it should matter where you are(football game, church, the subway/metro, ect) it should be everywhere.
I think a lot of people on this post arent looking at the big picture and are letting their emotions enter this debate with all the name calling and saying that this is important cause of XXX or it is silly cause of XXX. People in DC you need to unit and fight for your right cause the ruling of this lawsuit can only be positive or negative; which can be used in future legal proceedings as a benefit to the party that wins.
MJH my opinion is that Deaf people CAN’T unite, because there are so many opinions and rules about:
Pride
Heritage
Ostracizing those who are HOH.
Hearing people.
Ostracizing those who are CODA’s, those who aren’t etc.
Ostracizing those based on signing ability.
Judging interpreters based on their ASL, irregardless of the fact that they will NEVER attain ASL.
The agreement needs to be a medium where everyone gets the same message, and as demonstrated, that is by Captioning. But no, everyone is arguing about the medium, the delivery of message/captioning, which unknown to me was “determined” by Shane Feldman. Since we are all arguing about who says what is right, I am perfectly FINE with the accomodations AS THEY ARE. I’d rather not poke the bee hive than have a bunch of dumb hornets/bees attacking my ass.
I think it is a smart strategy. You start with the little folks and work your way up. Suing the Redskins? Very easy. It’s a no-lose case (I’d be surprised if NAD loses this). Then they can go after bigger fish, and there’s already a precident. They can say, “The Redskins did it”. And their case is all the stronger for it.
Yes, accessbility at places such as the NY Subway, airports are much more important… but think about it. Those agencies deal with billions of dollars and have armies of lawyers ready to deal with anything that might come up. NAD, at this time, would be outclassed in a second. But with a string of small lawsuits and legal precendents already set, then their case is stronger for all of it.
Suing the redskins is easy? the Snyder owned Redskins are worth 1.2 billion (1243 million) dollars, you don’t think that they won’t have a top notch law team?
Just because a law is passed doesnt necessarily mean that it was passed because of a lawsuit.
Just means are the most likely to lead to just ends. When Gandhi said that, the means may be likened to the seed, the end to a tree,” he expressed the philosophical kernel of what some refer to as prefigurative politics. Proponents of nonviolence (protesting) argue that the actions we take in the present inevitably re-shape social order in like form. It is fundamentally irrational to use litigation to achieve a peaceful outcome. Having access is an important issue, one that with absolute certaininty needs to be addressed. I would rather that this whole situation had been handled with more forethought. Litigation makes it appear we are “demanding” a result without willingness to compromise.
Organizations view those with a disability as a risk, because they perceive disability accommodations too expensive, too time consuming and high litigation potential. NAD has already demostrated this, AFTER Dan Snyder was willing to offer accomodations which were turned down.
What does Don/dan whatever his name is Snyder know about Disability accomodations? He know this: providing handicap ramps are expensive. Providing automatic doors for the handicap are expensive. The knowledge/paradigm of budget/cost accountants/assistants to Dan/Don Snyder are probally providing attitudinal stereotypes toward deaf fans and others with disabilities. As Most recently Demonstrated, the impression has already fit the mold.
The number one question im Sure Dan Snyder is asking, “what will this cost us” and “how will this look?” and/or “how will this affect the image of my team, my stadium?” another question “will incorporating a captioning system alienate my fanbase?” Fanbase=money, Fanbase=number one ASSET to the redskins.
[…] I was just thinking about Juanita’s blog, “Fumble In Deaf America” and how she feels that people in the deaf community are spoiled and expect too much. […]
This blog and the majority of the entries on here prove how true Juanita’s point of view is.
When I was younger, an older Deaf admonished me about wanting a TTY: “Listen to me. This is a hearing world and it is bigheaded of you to want the same as Hearing people have. Deaf people have gotten along without for hundreds of years and we have jobs, we have schools and we should be happy with what we have.” Does this make you speechless? It did me. The same Deaf elder worked against me when I was trying to advocate for an interpreters bureau in the city. Luckily, the time for “keeping our place” in the world has passed and we are now raising our children to expect the same treatment as hearing people get. No less, no more. Other bloggers have pointed out that what benefits us, also benefits others. To talk about costs and smallness of the Deaf population is defeating the larger purpose: equality and better access for EVERYONE.
Yikes! All you have to do is to just leave our community. Why are you still mingling among us?
“To talk about costs and smallness of the Deaf population is defeating the larger purpose: equality and better access for EVERYONE”
I understand your point DLM, but look around you, there is nothing left out in terms of access for the deaf. Since the Government has passed ADA, it is great that accomodations are being improved to give better quality, but Captioning at a football stadium? How are you going to see the screen if you are on the other end of the stadium? Where are you going to find the technology to provide this captioning?
Guys, guys, guys! Have you ever thought that Dan Snyder may have ordered the PR to paint Shane Feldman in bad light by mentioning that they did make a proposal whereas they really never did in the first place?
After all, it is their job to defend their company. Think about it.
R-
Hey Ridor-
I want to know your take on this… I posted it above… you provide a good insight to things.
Why football??? why not more important topics where PSA actually could save the life of a deaf family or person… items such as were mentioned above in another post emergency weather radios with text, or PSA systems in high traffic areas such as subways, airports, and other places. Having access to PSA and other communications is a very important issue, it should matter where you are(football game, church, the subway/metro, ect) it should be everywhere.
After reading all of the posts, I have to emphasize that Juanita’s original post - claiming that deaf people in America are spoiled - is simply biased. Hearing people in America are also overprivileged than other hearing people in poorer countries. And when will anyone ever consider that deaf and hearing people are not so different from each other? Sheesh.
Some of you probably are wrong about deaf individuals in other countries are underprivileged or underemployment.
The Scandavian countries are more progressive on deaf rights and access than deaf people in the United States. Sweden formally recognize their own deaf citizens’ native language and aggressively involve them in daily life, etc.
Deaf people in other countries are more forunate than deaf Americans like free housings and other things.
Thats where I want to move too…. the girls there are super hot tooo
so are you tryin to say that deaf people aren’t lazy enough with SSI in their pockets that we need free housing too?
SSI is conducive to deaf people being proactively employed in today’s workforce.
REMEMBER, it’s not only deaf people. Hearing people FREQUENTLY abuse SSI to avoid working and you have no idea how many they claim SSI when they don’t even have a “qualified” disability.
As for housing, it’s the hearing population that makes up most of the nation’s low-rent, Section-8/HUD housing initiative, not deaf people.
It’s just that the deaf population is so small and it makes it easier to label them as lazy - so proportionally, it’s the same for the hearing population.
So, Once Proud to be Deaf & Carl -make sure that you get your facts straightened out before you make that careless assumption.
So two wrongs make a right? Other people do it so we should do it?
I have no problem with SSI or SSDI for people who truly need it - but I abhor widespread abuse. Why does an able bodied college student need SSI? Because he or she is deaf? Give me a break! W-O-R-K. But all this is probably better off addressed in another blog. Anyone????
You completely misunderstood me. I was just clarifying that it’s NOT ONLY deaf people who are abusing SSI - hearing people do it all the time. That’s all. I never said deaf people should get it because hearing people get it too.
This is not to address deaf people, but anyone who receives SSI. The idea of SSI should be confined to those who are physically disabled (can’t walk etc). I can’t agree with Newbie more, those on SSI have to get their bored asses out of their house and work like the rest of us.
my statement “SSI is conducive to deaf people being proactively employed in today’s workforce” is a personal opinion based on my experience. It is not an assumption. I have worked for NYS VR in the Bronx and have personally SEEN the effects of those who have SSI and are deaf. There is a VERY STRONG coorelation with those who are on SSI and deaf, the coorelation(s) are as follows:
less motivation to find a job, more reliance on social workers who are already OVERLOADED with a case load, which gives them less time for quality social work.
-more depressed, more time, no focus, no goals. Low Self Esteem.
-More reliance on ssi, less educated.
So if you want me to give you a personal tour of the Bronx, with a 11% unemployment rate, feel free to ask. If you want to see deaf people struggling to pay for a TTY because THEIR SSI CHECKS are so low go right ahead.
your statement below is not true:
“As for housing, it’s the hearing population that makes up most of the nation’s low-rent, Section-8/HUD housing initiative, not deaf people.” This is your opinion.
Back up your opinion with verifiable proof before assuming. Not all Disabled people are Deaf.
Thank you, Carl
Carl - thank you for sharing your opinion. But remember, SSI is not only for deaf people or people with other disabilities, but includes retired workers, widows/widowers, and their children. The results that you mentioned - low motivation, self-esteem, overeliance - does apply to the hearing population as well. So, I’m afraid that you are still making a wide generalization.
You can easily find the demographics from the Social Security Administration’s Congressional Statistics at their homepage.
As for Section 8 housing, most of the residents are elderly with low incomes. You can contact HUD for more additional information.
Cloak and Dagger-
Yes I know SSI is not only for Deaf people, I am keeping the discussion relevant to the post, to this blog, that focuses on deaf issues.
Im not making a generalization with my comment about Deaf people and SSI. How can i make a generalization when i have worked with this segment of the population personally? I am giving a case-specific example of how SSI deludes deaf people by getting free money. The system doesnt work, it does not focus on SOLUTIONS FOR PROACTIVE LIVING. Instead it gives out money to deaf people lacking incentive to create a better quality of life for themselves. The very check they receive justifies them NOT to go out and find a JOB. This experience has taught me SO much, and that we are STILL so very far behind on attitudes of employers towards the deaf.
I find this discussion incredibly interesting.
I certainly hope the readers noticed Scott Vanice’s comments regarding the legal strategy of the NAD lawsuit and the precedent that this lawsuit holds for the deaf community. I am not to single him out on this but he made a very, very good point. We do not know enough about this but I have already observed people pulling Shane down with his lawsuit objectives. What’s the point?
Why are you using up so much energy to talk him down or the merits of the lawsuit. We call can learn from Shane’s lawsuit. One does not necessarily agree with Shane’s avenues but that does not mean you can spit, bemoan and whine at his options. Thanks to Shane, we are having an insightful conversation and we could actually get something out of this.
As a matter of the fact, this country is very litigious. There are many, many lawsuits that are filed that basically have no merit, no grounds on legal avenues and so forth. If Redskins think that the NAD lawsuit is senseless or has no merit, they will file a motion to dismiss the lawsuit on the grounds of lack of stating a relief or other grounds (with different legal avenues available to Redskins). It’ll be up to the judge to observe whether the lawsuit has any merit. To this date, I have yet to hear whether the lawsuit has been filed accordingly or there are motions in the air for the judge to review and possibly either to uphold the lawsuit and let the litigation proceed or to dismiss it all together.
This is more about what is actually at the stake here and what are the “legitimate” legal avenues for the NAD and Redskins to take it up before the court.
I find it completely ridiculous that you are bemoaning this. I think we all can learn from this and see what this holds for us. Some of you fear that this will set a precedent for the future. Of course, that’s what the lawsuit is all about! Laws do not stay the same forever. People change. Societies change. People learn and grow.
It will also give us a glimpse of what the courts look at the ADA and how they interpret the ADA and what we can do with the ADA. The ADA is a living fabric and we do not completely understand it to the full extent. A lot of us think we do, but as a matter of the fact, I quite disagree.
We do have a long way to go and there are grounds for us to cover but for the starters, let’s not get too friendly with the crab theory or to dumb ourselves further. This trend is quite old, if you haven’t noticed and I’m frankly tired of it.
Extremely valid point. I’m good friends with Shane, and he did mention one thing that I don’t think were mentioned here. I read all of them, and haven’t seen any mention of this - but maybe it has and I overlooked it.
He’s not asking for any punitive damages, no suffering, none of that BS. He’s asking for a very simple thing, that they caption the Jumbotron. They could also simply turn on the captioning at the various TVs stationed at the various concession stands. Those are a live feed and what we would see if we were at home, so those already are captioned.
The fact that he did not ask for punitive damages makes his case much stronger. He’s not in it for the money, he’s here because he wants to have an equal experience with the 91,000 other hearing people that go to the games.
FYI, Feldman has had season tickets and has taken me to 1 or 2 games annually since he’s gotten them.
Also - to add another comment, Scott Van Nice is correct, the NAD only takes on cases that are precedent setting. They are solicited daily for hundreds of cases and they’re very careful on which cases they accept.
If that is why NAD is taking this case, I’m sure there are many cases that are precedent setting that NAD can’t handle. Still, it boils down to how NAD prioritizes some precedent setting cases over the other.
I feel NAD needs, with their limited resources, to focus on cases that affect and will benefit every deaf/hoh American. Don’t take me the wrong way, Shane is welcome to pursue his case, but he could go to a private lawyer on his own without the assistance of NAD. Nevertheless, I wish him all the luck.
He could go to a private lawyer - however, if he did so, that’d mean he’d have to pay for it out of his pocket.
I went to the Redskins game this last Sunday night, if all Shane is asking for is captioning on the jumbotron, then I don’t think that is asking for too much.
Since when is everything for free? So, you’re saying that if he has to pay out of his pocket, he wouldn’t take action??
Besides, there are many underemployed and uneducated deaf people out there who need NAD’s help more than people like us do. Let’s not hope it is because Shane was an employee of NAD and that he gets a preferential treatment.
Your article mentions a school in Guadalajara where deaf children are not allowed to play soccer. Can you tell me anything about the life and education of deaf children and family’s in or around Guadalajara? I am a Hearing person, and do not know a great deal about deaf people, but I have been learning sign language. A friend of mine is a deaf woman she lived in Guadalajara as a child and her family,all deaf, came to America when she was a young teenager. She never attended school after moving to the states, I do not think that the education she received in Mexico was very good. I would like to help her but I do not know where to start, or even if she will let me try. All that she ever has been willing to say about her childhood is that Guadalajara was a big city and that she claims not to even read Spanish, Do they really only teach ASL or has she just forgotten? Some of her signs are a bit different than the ones I have learned from other deaf people, but she uses English spelling when she finger spells or writes.
J W