By Sean Landry
Any and all accommodations that you ask for from any place of employment or public accommodations must be provided to you according to Americans with Disabilities Act, right?
Wrong!
Surprised and confused? Well, so was I when I went to the local kid’s gym (an unnamed franchise) several months ago to enroll my daughter in several sessions of play and music classes. When my wife called the gym’s enrollment center to make arrangements for our hearing daughter, she asked them if they would provide her (my wife) with an interpreter so that my wife could enjoy understanding the class. They emailed her back stating that they would not provide her with one but she was more than welcome to bring her own to class at her own expense and, to my utter shock, further stated that they have had many other deaf clients who have brought their own to these classes.
What?!?
Bring your own interpreter at your own expense?!? My first thought was: “What were these deaf clients thinking?!?” I have never ever heard of deaf folks paying for their own interpreters at public places such as kids gyms, movie theaters, stage theaters, and so on. I find it very hard to believe (and outrageous) that deaf folks bring their own interpreters as interpreting services are rather very expensive. I know that most interpreting agencies charge around $150-200 bucks an hour with a two hour minimum. Now, the class that my wife was trying to register our daughter for is only 45 minutes long. That would mean we deaf consumers would be OUT anywhere from $300 to $400 bucks just for a measly 45 minute class, which is unrealistic for most of us (except for the super rich deaf, which I surmise are few and far in the DC metro area.)
After much thought about this matter, I decided to speak with the owner of the business as well as the corporate offices on the west coast. The corporate office was unable to work with me on this because they said they only offer marketing support to the franchise but the Sr. Vice President said that she would talk to the owner and see what they could do for my wife. A few days later, I got a call back from the owner of the business. She said that she could not financially afford to hire interpreters because she was a “small business” owner and since the class costs much less than the cost of hiring an interpreter, she would not be making a profit, but lose money in the process. The owner said that, per ADA, they have other avenues of meeting the requirements for ADA. In lieu of having an interpreter, they would provide course materials (written / printed) for us to review before the class.
This wasn’t the ideal solution for us to this situation but it was a lot better than several other options that we had present before us: 1) Signing up for the class and then suing them in court, which we would have to shell out huge smackaroos to pay for the lawyer to represent us, or 2) filing a formal complaint with the Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice, OR as a last resort 3) accept the firm’s own offered solutions.
At this point, I didn’t want to deplete my bank account to hire an expensive lawyer. Furthermore, getting the Civil Rights Division of Department of Justice involved would require many years to pass before such a negotiation/settlement/resolution would ever take place, we opted to accept their offered solution of receiving printed/written materials to review before the class session took place. Ideally, we would have liked an interpreter instead. This was one of the most frustrating experiences I have gone through in a long time and I never had problems like this with any employer that had hired me. Those that I have worked for were so willing to provide it (my current employer provided me with separate internet connection so I could have the videophone installed and even provided a medium sized TV as well for the videophone). Perhaps the size of the company and the financial impact that they could absorb doing it has a lot to do with it? Hmmm…
After talking to Shane about this experience, he suggested that small businesses could take advantage of tax credits for providing disability-related accommodations. I told him that I’d look into it and offer a blog on that issue alone as well. I largely think that its because many smaller establishments and companies aren’t as well educated as the larger ones are.
More to follow on a later blog on disability related tax credits…
Meanwhile, does anyone want to share their thoughts on this issue and the choices that my family was faced with in this situation? Would you have done differently in this regard?
Born in Germany and raised in various US military bases worldwide, Sean Landry attended GMU in Virginia, worked in corporate finance in DC area for 13 yrs before attending Rochester’s RIT. With an MBA in hand, he headed to an even more northern and colder place, Burlington, Vermont. There, he did a year-long stint for IBM before calling “uncle” to the cold and moved back to DC area where he now works as an Account Financial Manager for a major management consulting firm. A happily married father of a year-old daughter, he often enjoys working on home renovation projects — the latest project was building an elaborate wall-to-wall library — and vacationing in Thailand every two years.
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Disability tax credits is a good start, but businesses generally balk at paying the costs up front even though they’ll be reimbursed for it when filing taxes later on in the year.
I would rather have accommodations subsidized by the federal government. For instance, there’s a federal teleconferencing captioning program for deaf federal employees. The government pays the costs for that, but a program like that is cost-prohibitive to business owners in the private sector. Say, a business does most of its business through videoconferencing with its affiliate offices, and they have a deaf candidate that comes in for the interview. That employer will think about the costs in hiring a captioning company or a translator for the videoconferences if the deaf employee is hired. Ergo, it makes that employer less likely to hire that deaf employee. However, if the costs of providing these accommodations were to be subsidized by the government, then the company would not worry about the cost in hiring that deaf employee.
Sean Landry - I remember you from the long-numbered days of the Deaf/HH AOL message boards. You’ve came a long way. Congratulations. If I was in your shoes, I won’t haggle with them. Sufficing is an one-sentence letter, “Screw you, it’s your loss. I won’t recommend your business to anyone.” If you’re an African-American would you dare patronize a store that’s arrogant towards your heritage? I know the answer is no but maybe I’m wrong if you’re an “Uncle Tom.” Super rich deaf persons, which are very few and far anywhere, paying their own way in this regard are seriously self-oppressing and sending a mixed message to the commoners. They establish very bad precedents finding its way in quality time wasted in the courtrooms. It sucks telling jurists about rich deaf people messing up precedent.
DeafSpook-
Thank you for your compliment!
Hmmmm, you do make some good points here but what if there is NO other acceptable public accommodations that offers equal or better services for your family? Sometimes you have to swallow your pride and make some hard choices because it may be beneficial to your kids to take these classes.
But your comments that such “super rich” deaf people are, as you say in your blog response, “seriously self-oppressing and sending a mixed message to the commoners.” are kind of rather very strong. OUCH. But for them, maybe they want to do it because they CAN burn the money they’ve earned and can afford to do so. More power to them if they can do that but does it HELP others? Probably not because it, like you said, can hurt the rest of us by “showing” these business owners that we, too, should be able to afford it and enables these business owners to come up with the comments along the lines of “Oh, we have had deaf clients bring their own interpreters so you are welcome to bring your own.” Sometimes it burns me up…and sometimes not. It all depends upon the situation and who I am dealing with.
Logically, we require sufficient UNIFICATION AND DISCIPLINE sending a message to those who wants our business. I don’t think a super-rich “Michael Jordan” will buy dining establishments catering to the white establishment just so he can say “I ate there but I had to buy the whole joint to cover-up the injustice.” Super-rich deaf are better off burning money A-D-V-O-C-A-T-I-N-G this cause rather than being an Uncle Tom kissing-rear to those sometimes greedy establishments.
Noelle - Federal subsidizing? There are powerful oppositions towards the Federal subsidizing any kind of business. It’s easier said than done. Who will police this scenario? It’s time you to file an application to join the upcoming Socialist party. (Disclaimer: I know there’s some good in the Socialist party)
The relay system you rely on is currently subsidized by the federal government. Private relay companies like Sprint, Sorenson, to name just a few, are subsidized by taxpayers in providing these services for the deaf/Deaf community. That’s a form of socialization, like the police and fire departments are being socialized through taxpayer funds.
Exactly my point. And why do you think there are pressure to decrease reimbursement rate for the relay service industries? People from many walks of life are fed up with abuse of subsidies in and out of the relay service industry!
I beg to differ that people from all walks of life are fed up with the reimbursement rates. I think it is rather more of the pot of funding getting smaller due to congressional budget cuts as well as the funding is being drawn down at a faster rate due to the number of VRS providers popping up at a faster rate than a few years ago. More business owners are jumping on the bandwagon. Look at the number of firms providing relay services online (Instant messenger relay - I rarely use them since I prefer to use VCO option on my Videophone in my dealings with other businesses and colleagues alike since I am capable of speaking for myself. (NOTE to anti-VCO folks: this is not the right place to begin posting your ANTI-VCO views because we aren’t talking about whether VCO is the right thing to use or not. The point of the blog is to talk about accommodations. Thanks!) So the costs, of course, is going to be higher than those that use the Instant Messenger option.
So FCC is taking a hard look at the costs now to prevent the pot of funding from drying up too soon.
I am Deaf and I have hearing children. I’ve brought them to music classes but didn’t feel the need to hire my own interpreter.
I can definitely see where the small business owner is coming from. If I recall correctly, small businesses are exempt from the ADA if the burden would be unreasonable (i.e., undue hardship). However, as Shane pointed out, tax credits up to $5,000 per year are available for disability related accommodations. Credits reduce one’s tax liability dollar for dollar (and are far better than deducting) so, the cost would be essentially zero for the business owner (only after filing taxes, etc.) This credit, however, is only available to business owners with total revenues of $1 million or less.
More information can be found here –
http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/smbustxt.htm
http://www.sba.gov/idc/groups/.....mbusgd.pdf
http://www.eeoc.gov/ada/adahan.....reasonable
So, essentially, there is no automatic right to accommodation by a disabled person from a small business owner. Congress has provided that it’s a judgment call for the small business owner.
Hello there! You are correct in your second paragraph here that small businesses can be exempt from such costs since it would be, as you said, undue hardship for them to take on these costs if it was proven that it would be impossible for them to bear these costs.
Additionally, you are correct in your assessment that its a judgement call for the small business owner; however, most attorneys may beg to differ that the small business owner can be exempt if they can show that the business owner can reasonably afford the accommodations. Several small businesses have been successfully sued in the past for such grievances after the plaintiff’s lawyers were able to show that the accommodations were, in fact, reasonably affordable (an one time cost that wouldn’t break the firm’s bank account). Often times, these firms just don’t want to do the legwork of doing the compliance work. So its up to US to prod them to do it via the legal process.
I neglected to ask you one important question: why do you think you do not need such an interpreter for your kids’ classes? How are you able to understand the instructor in the class itself if you do participate in the class with your children? Inquiring minds want to know.
Thanks!
As someone else noted, after multiple iterations of “Wheel on the Bus,” and “Row, Row, Row Your Boat,” you start recognizing the songs. ;-)
I never thought it was worth paying an interpreter for that. What was important, in my opinion, was my child’s enjoyment. And he did enjoy it and I’m looking forward to bringing my daughter to these sessions.
But that’s not entirely fair to Sean, his wife, and others. I lucked out by having a music instructor who knew some sign and was aware that I was Deaf and made an effort to make sure that I knew what was going on. That was sufficient for a 45 minute class on a weekly basis.
This was, by the way, through Fairfax County, and not a private music company so the comparison may not be helpful.
If I remember correctly, Sean lives in Fairfax County. Sean and his wife can find excellent courses for children through this –
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/parks/parktakes.htm
Look at the Children’s Corner and see what is available.
I am surprised that this was through Fairfax County as by law they are required to comply with ADA! My mother works for the county and they are BIG on accommodations. I am utterly shocked that they didn’t provide you with interpreters. Did you ask for it?
Let me clarify. They did offer and I turned them down. As I said, it wasn’t worth it from my perspective. And I got lucky, as I indicated, with an instructor who (sort of) knew sign language so I was able to follow for the large part. But seriously, it’s not all that hard to follow toddler songs.
Interesting! Okay thanks for the update on your situation. However, for me, trying to lipread someone who sings a song is really tough. If it was just “talking”, I’d probably understand it pretty well. But singing? Fahgaht it. Most deaf people would rather ask for interpreters for children’s classes IF they are going to participate in the class.
My wife and I stopped going to the other franchise gym and we started to attend Bethesda’s own Kids Imagination Stage –it is an awesome children’s theatre that has accessibility programs built in and they have interpreters there! We, as a family, got a lot out of it and we are MUCH happier than we were before!
Thanks for the tip about Kids Imagination Stage in Bethesda. I’ll have to check it out.
Lisa Agogliati was the one who established the Deaf Access Program for the Bethesda Arts Performing Academy back in the 1980s and my wife was one of the first participants in that program. They changed the name to Imagination Stage a few years back and now our 1-year-old deaf daughter attend one of their children programs every Saturday morning and Lisa interpret for us. Check out their web:
http://www.imaginationstage.or.....access.htm
Chris-
Are you there every morning at 9:30 in the classroom on the right side of the hall? If so, then I think I’ve met you and your wife already.
Yes, that’s correct. Small world, eh?
You are correct that because of the tax credit being dollar-for-dollar, the cost would be zero for the business owner, but ONLY UP TO THE MAXIMUM CREDIT. This means, if as pointed out above, it is a minimum of $400 for each class, the family could only take 12 classes and then it would start costing the business owner $400 per week for this family (who has no doubt paid about that much for the ENTIRE YEAR OF MUSIC CLASSES) to take classes for another 40 weeks, i.e. $16,000.00. That is probably one-fifth to one-quarter of this business’ profits for the year. And let’s hope that more than one class per week doesn’t need an interpreter at that price–pretty soon the business owner will actually be paying more out of pocket than he brings in, period.
I couldn’t agree more that accommodations need to be made, but I wholly agree with Noelle that it should be at the taxpayers’ expense, not the individual small business owners’. Society as a whole benefits from a case such as this–this child will be enriched and this will be one more step toward him/her becoming a productive member of society, particularly if he/she gets to enjoy the class with Mom. However, this business owner should not be made to bear such a cost–who on earth would go into business if it ended up costing him money at the end of each year???
Julie-
Your comments are very well received and I agree with you on several of your points; however, I disagree with your comment that the costs that the small business would have to borne would make it very unlikely for them to hire the deaf employee. I, myself, have been hired by several small, mid-size, and large firms in the past.
I think it basically is the expertise and background that the company is interested in if they want to hire the person but you must be aware that if the employer has contracts with the Federal Government, they *MUST* abide by the anti-discrimination clauses/laws that the Government is holding them to. If they *DO* discriminate against a “protected class” (defined as being a member of the minority–such as Native American Indian, disabled, and so forth) and that it has been proven that they did discriminate illegally, that firm CAN potentially lose their right to compete for future government contracts and even be penalized by losing their current contracts but this is rather a very rare case because everyone knows that it is extremely difficult to prove that they did discriminate in their hiring practices.
Back to the point here: many large firms do take advantage of such tax credits for the disabled because it can be beneficial to them. They want to take any and all financial credits available to them. Now, how about the smaller firms? Many small firms, you’d be surprised, are very unaware of such tax credits and often do not know how to go about taking advantage of such credits. Not many small accounting firms who cater to small businesses are aware of such credit being available. Moreover, many internal accounting departments of such companies are even in the same boat as the small accounting CPAs as well. Sometimes it pays to educate these firms to allay their fears that they will have to absorb the full costs of complying with such accommodations. I, myself, told my firm that the costs only would amount to 120 bucks a month — a cost that they were willing to absorb since it would simply go into their overhead and indirect costs to be billed back to their clients as a cost of doing business.
What if a small business ($30K a year net profit barely covering the back of the sole owner after paying expenses including payroll) pays for $7.5K worth of interpreting services and receives $5K in tax credit. Problem still remains $2.5K representing a large percentage of the sole owner’s income ($30K.)
Deafspook,
8% to me is rather minuscule if I believe that it may result in increased business in the future from word of mouth to other potential clients. I’d have to increase my clientele significantly over time to be able to cover these costs. If it is a one time cost that I can easily afford, I’d do it. If they can do it, then deaf business owners should be held to the same standards as well. Its a valid argument, I would think.
Miniscule figures exists for a reason. Just other form of whatever adds up!
Had there been any deaf person who goes to job interviews and expect the employers to provide interpreters for the interviews? I am not able to get an interpreter for any job interview without the state’s BVR’s help, although I do have a full-time job now but wanted a different job so I can move on. However, my state BVR refuse to help me for interpreters because I already have a full-time job. This is BS.
I’ve wondered about this myself. I had hoped to change careers around now after recently completing another degree… but now I fear that I may not even get my foot in the door if the interview is a problem… i’m a late HH adult in my early 30s… so I’m dealing with a lot of this simultaneously… but boy do I want to change jobs and perhaps move to another city… it sucks to feel trapped….
Dude, you’re in your early 30s. I’m in my early 40s and I’m definitely trapped into a career that is remunerative but not soul satisfying. You have more chances — and I’d suggest you grab them — in changing your life track.
After 40, your chances of landing a new job declines rapidly UNLESS you are in a position where your skills are at a premium and much in demand. Not only that, by that age, you have, if you haven’t already done so, risen to the top of your career to the point where it is harder to find positions that pay even more than what you are making now and have more responsibilities.
Think of it as this way. The start of your career enters a pyramid from the bottom. Entry level jobs are more plentiful at the bottom but as you advance in our career, the number of jobs with higher pay and additional responsibilities declines. Now, notice at the top of the pyramid, usually it takes a long, and I mean LONG, time to rise to that level.
Why?
There is demand only for a few folks who can run a corporation or organization. Trying to find a job like that is like trying to find a needle in the haystack.
Hence, after 40, it is tougher to find jobs that pay significantly more with more responsibilities than where you currently are now. This is why CEOs make big bucks. If they are fired or pushed out of their jobs by the Board of Directors, it takes them eons to be able to find another job at the same level and at the pay they were making before. The hefty pay is their safety net because they may never be able to earn that kind of $$$ for a long time. Is it fair? Its debatable. A friend of mine who was a CEO said that its quite lonely and stressful at the top! He needlessly to say, got pushed out when his firm got bought out by an acquiring firm.
Sorry folks if this isn’t related to the accommodations topic!
Rob-
This is interesting to say that. If I were you, I would be rather very careful about making comments like that on a public forum because they may then refuse or make it very difficult to help you in the future because of your comments.
In my experience, I have had several employers ask me if I needed an interpreter for the interviews but I’ve never had to utilize them because I speak and read lips very well. In your case, you may very well require such interpreter services. What I believe is if they call you for an interview, you may bring up the subject of them providing an interpreter for the interview so that the interview would be adequately facilitated between you and the employer. If they refuse and then deny you a job, then you may be faced with a potential discrimination case here. I’d consult an employment and discrimination lawyer if I were you as I have never been faced with that situation before in my life so I wouldn’t know how that process would work out if such discrimination took place.
As for the State of MD not providing you with an interpreter, maybe they believe that you are gainfully employed that they aren’t required to provide you with an interpreter unless you were laid off or terminated, perhaps?
I know of some states that refuse to pay for additional degrees beyond a B.S. degree because they are only required to assist you with gaining a basic(!) college education. Texas, to my knowledge, pays for all degrees , even law! (Don’t hold me to that as that is what I’ve HEARD from friends in Texas and I don’t know if that still holds true today.)
Excuse me, Aquafina, who the hell are you to judge how I should be careful with my comments? You don’t have a clue about my actual situation and I’m asking a general question. And who the hell are “THEY”? Employers or BVR out surfing the Net searching for negative comments of other job-seekers? Get real, man, they don’t have manpower and time to do that and trust me, I know something about what human resources can do and cannot do in these circumstances. Like I checked about comments in public forums, the First Amendment is still in force.
I do not live in the state of Maryland, just outside of it. I’ve only learned through other deaf people that I’m not the only one with this problem I have with the BVR. It’s a common problem in the state I live: deaf people either have a FT or PT job cannot get an interpreter for any other job interview if they wish to seek career or job change, because the BVR only follow the money and some stupid rules (only one have to be laid off or fired can get help; simply quitting from a job or seeking a job change, no help). I also learned that not all BVR offices follow policies equally - some are known audists working in “cushion government jobs” eagerly awaiting their comfortable government pensions while dispensing audistic “Sorry we cannot help you” to the deaf seeking job changes or interpreters for job interviews.
I can speak and read lips fairly well and to a point in job interviews, but there come a point that I need an interpreter for any job interview in case I’m facing people who have never interview a deaf person in their lives and not used to asking few questions they may have to repeat. I had few job interviews in the past that went fairly well (without an interpreter) but didn’t get them because these people founded the process and the prospect of hiring a deaf person a little more daunting for them. I do not need an every day interpreter at work, only for job interviews, to ensure that no question is repeatedly asked and no exchange of communication is misunderstood.
Sorry, thought you had said “MD” in your blog comments.
However, you should consult a lawyer if you feel your rights to an interpreter for job interviews were violated by your state’s BVR. If they are blatantly denying you your rights under the State’s rules, then you have a right to have a redress to this problem. If they are denying all other deaf candidates the same thing equally, then it may be difficult for you to overcome that.
First of all, yes, I have sprung for interpreters in the past, long before the VRS industry inflated the costs in securing community interpreters. However, my needing such interpreters at my own dime were far few and in between, thankfully.
Secondly, all the talk about tax credits is nice; ultimately, it’s all nonsense. Operating a small business is all about cash flow NOW. N O W . We can’t expect small businesses to sacrifice current cash flow in providing accommodations, with the expectations they’ll be ‘reimbursed’ at tax return time?
Bottom line; If a small business ‘discriminates’ against you by denying an accommodation or offers an alternate, however unsatisfactory, accommodation, it’s up to you to continue to patronize the business. By large, I often just disengage relations and seek business elsewhere, preferably the better capitalized ones.
Cousin Vinny-
What if you can’t find the better capitalized ones that offer what you want? What then? ;)
The only answer to this is to set up a government fund that goes with the tax credit so that the business does not experience a cash flow problem or beg ignorance of the credit.
They get reimbursed immediately or assign their tax credit to the fund and thats that.
Forcing the issue with businesses earning less than 1 million a year could result in Deaf clients receiving poor or no service, being put on waiting lists and left there forever, and discouraged in other ways.
Even if it risks an ADA suit, they know it would take time, money and availability of lawyers against a poor chance of winning it.
Get the ADA off the backs of small business and we could see a marked reduction in lawsuits and better service for the deaf community.
And the money comes from . . . where? More taxes? Wonderful . . . (And I’ll be keeping a close eye on the presidential candidates and selecting those who won’t automatically raise taxes and create new taxes)
We need to roll back the tax cuts for the superwealthy because that’s what has contributed to the huge national deficit in addition to the war in Iraq. We’re facing an average household debt of $32,000 because of the Iraq war and the tax cuts for the wealthy.
Well, what’s wrong with raising taxes for the middle-class? On principle, the rich should not be forced to fork over the majority of this country’s income taxes - but since they already do, they shouldn’t be given **** for wanting tax cuts just like everybody else. Believe it or not, the majority of the rich actually work very, very hard for their high income.
Given that the top one percent of the country’s elites own 32.7 percent of the total wealth of the United States, it seems only appropriate to tax them. The country’s middle class is getting squeezed hard and it’s going to get worse as time goes by thanks to mismanaged tax cuts, reckless economic policies, and the size of the baby boom generation threatening Social Security. The growth of the middle class post WWII may be seen as an aberration in this country by certain of our country’s elites, but I want clean water, an environment, libraries, good schools, and opportunities for growth for my children. Creating a lumpenproletariat tugging their forelocks at the likes of Paris Hilton is not the recipe to a stable republic.
Are you kidding me here?!? Tax the middle class more? BWAHAHHAH I am rubbing my eyes here to see if I read that correctly.
First of all, most of the middle class are already paying too much taxes as it is. Many of our wages are still not rising at a level that of the wealthy. It is a fact here that the wealthy/middle class gap is still growing larger by the year.
Many of us middle class folks are still paying more and more every year through a variety of taxes yet our salaries aren’t keeping up with the inflation. Property taxes, personal property tax for automobiles, city taxes, social security taxes, medicare taxes, blah blah blah…you get the picture here, don’t you?
Bottom line here is that the wealthy’s salaries are increasing every year whereas the middle class’ are either stagnating or declining.
And you propose that the middle class be taxed more?
Maybe we should throw you in the Boston Harbor to protest your tax increase advocancy!
Read more carefully. I said tax the rich and that the middle class is already overtaxed.
I was responding to JT’s posting, not yours, anonymous. I did read carefully. :)
All you people in this section, nowhere did I suggest additional taxes. Businesses already get a tax credit for paying for interpreters, but cash flow is a problem for small businesses who cannot wait till tax time comes around to get their credit. Ergo, set up a fund where these businesses get interpreter bills paid and assign their credit to the fund so that the fund, not the business, waits for the reimbursement. All clear now?
DiRez, I am sure everyone here trusts whatever you choose to post. I know I do, even if you do not always agree with my comebacks.
I am curious, please excuse a senior citizen from asking stupid questions. Are “interpreters” as such, all lumped into one category? Gee, with all of the immigrants running around, seems like this would be a huge tax write off! Whew.
Lantana
Good question, Lantana. I see agencies advertising that they have interpreters available in several languages, but only know of ADA REQUIRING hospitals, etc. to provide ASL interpreters.
Possibly the major languages of the US don’t have similar mandates, but this would have to be checked. Government offices normally have English and Spanish language staff and materials available.
Anybody have specific information to enlighten us on how ASL stacks up with other languages in interpreting services?
I used to work in advocacy field…I can tell you that in area of law, hearing people who need interpreters (i.e., Chinese, Spanish, French or whatever) have NO legal leg to stand on at all.
They’re at mercy of English-speaking society, and have to hope that businesses, agencies, hospitals, etc are willing to provide them with interpreters.
Before I moved to Indiana, I was living in upstate New York and our Attorney General (for NY) was working on a legal solution to cover these hearing people, and it was still pending when I moved. The state did set up a service where hearing people who needed interpreters could simply call a phone number and state the specific language they needed an interpreter for, and the interpreter would be at the other end of the line and using conference calling option, would interpret whatever was going on on the spot. If I remember correctly, the cost of using that interpreter was something like $60 for 30 minutes.
Michele I am very happy to hear that. Thanks for this great information.
Lantana
I have a hard time believing that a business like this, having a senior vice president fits the criteria of being a small business under ADA. Did they have 15 employees or under?
Not disagreeing with what you did, Sean… You did what you felt was right. I think there needs to be a better way to deal with this whole thing. Things aren’t working, and that needs to change.
Maybe the franchise owner isn’t small… but it’s likely the local business is tiny.
I’m not sure how ADA applies to franchises… but ethically, they should have some kind of accommodations.
Deaf Pundit and Sara (by the way, my daughter’s name is Sara :) )—
Here is some more info about the business owner. She’s an owner of two franchises so I argued with the national Franchisor about this. They say they don’t OPERATE (that is their key word) but they did say they encourage the franchisees to comply with ADA laws and according to the franchisee owners, their businesses are small (they have about 4-5 employees in each of their businesses so they technically qualify for the designation of “small business”.
The VP was VP of Franchising. Franchises are the worst types of businesses to sue because its difficult to go after them due to their small business status. However, they did comply in the letter of the law by providing written and printed materials which ADA states they can do to avoid being burdened by undue hardship costs.
I dislike the whole scheme of it but that is reality of life these days. Its dog eat dog world and everyone can sue everyone these days but it takes serious dough to see it through.
Aquafina, thanks for the clarification. I understand it better now.. and that is a very good question. Hmm. I’ll do some asking around…
In your (the author’s) shoes, I would have made friends with freelance interpreters, since agency interpreters are far more costly than freelance interpreters.
You could get a freelance interpreter for around $40 an hour or so, depending on who you ask. The last time I lived in Maryland area was before 2003, and two of my favorite freelance terps charged $35 an hour. They may have upped the price a bit since then.
I’m going through a situation right now where I requested CART for a seminar I am attending and it was turned down due to the cost. Since it is for work my company is definitely partly responsible for making sure I get the accommodations I need, but I don’t think it would be fair for them to pay more than half. The seminar is run by a For Profit company that really ought to have a budget for this kind of thing.
In the end, the seminar company appeased my boss (not me entirely, but I am sick of fighting) by saying they found a man with a voice recognition system who will be at the seminar for me. It’s called SpeakNRead (www.speaknreadtb.com) if anyone has heard of it. He also said they would refund the seminar cost ($1000) if I can’t understand it. It seems entirely inappropriate to me for a 2 day 8 hours a day seminar. I have used voice recognition systems in place of CART before and the accuracy with a highly trained transcriber was still inferior.
I have 2 things that are keeping me from just not going.
1. It’s in Tampa, and my boyfriend and I will be going down for the whole weekend for fun.
2. I’m going to bring a projector and hook it up to the SpeakNRead so Everyone there can see how awful the captions are I mean… so everyone can benefit from the equal communication access!
(and 3. is that my boss and I will be sending letters to all the professional engineering societies telling them how unethical this engineering “seminar” company is. Ethically, engineers are supposed to do all the can to train new engineers.)
I agree with Dianrez. What about Christmas programs, where the children sing, “Frosty The Snowman”? Do you need an interpreter for those too? We must learn to go slowly with our demands, Rome wasn’t built in a day.
Lantana
Slowly?
ADA has been around since 1990.
There’s really no excuse for it…the media has covered ADA repeatedly in all these years, and we still have hearing people who need to have their arms twisted in order to follow the law and to do the right thing.
If you “wait” for hearing people to do the right thing, you’ll find yourself waiting a very long time.
Remember, black Americans waited a VERY long time…they were granted freedom from slavery in 1864 and they had to resort to lawsuits and riots in order to effect longterm change which didn’t happen until after 1960s.
Do you really want to wait that long?
Well, kiddo, I have been around for 74 years and I have seen some pretty good improvements. Do you people expect the government to provide each one of us deafies with an interpreter every single time we go out in public? That is what families are for, to help one another. I consider myself independent and can do ANYTHING without an interpreter,but since I am “entitled” I do ask for one if I feel it is important enough.
I DON’T think that a pelvic exam is important enough to have an interpreter in the room. Most of us receive a computer printout before we leave the doctors’ office.
Of course if one is illiterate, an ASL Reverse interpreter might be necessary.
Lantana
My wife and I are volunteers for a dog rescue group which is a non-profit organization. They hold an annual meet with about 1.5 days of workshops related to the breed we work with. Last year, we asked the group to provide interpreters. They declined the request, stating that the limited funding is reserved for rescuing dogs, and therefore claimed “undue hardship.” We have no problem with that rationale. However, the meet was hosted in a national chain hotel. The hotel declined our request for interpreters, stating it was the group’s responsibility to provide interpreters. Title III of the ADA clearly states its the responsibility of BOTH the business AND the landlord to ensure reasonable accommodations are provided. Well, what were we supposed to do when the business claimed “undue hardship?” Logic seems to dictate that the responsibility would then shift over to the hotel to provide the interpreters. We made no headway with this issue with either the rescue organization or the hotel and ended up not attending.
Anyway, there’s another meet scheduled for next year. One of the volunteer members of the group wants to help us go by seeking how to obtain a grant or whatever to offset the cost of interpreters. Does anyone here know whether or not the tax credit for small businesses also applies to non-profit organizations?
I looked at http://www.disability.gov and http://www.ada.gov and the ADA apply to all businesses with 15 employees and up regardless of whether they have disabled workers or not.
When I got jobs in the past, I did this: I mailed or emailed my resume without the word deaf on it and changed to a hearing phone number without a TTY/TTD number. Then the HR office emailed me and I emailed back with the name of a sign language interpreting agency. Most HR folks won’t know how to look for one.
The Disabled Accred Credit 8826 from http://www.irs.gov doesn’t apply to larbe companies but small businesses can benefit from it.
My hearing kids are in public schools and we have no problems requestings sign language interpreters.
About this CART/captioning thing, can I just hand the phone to hearing people in meetings and have the relay system Ca typed out the whole conversation?
Then the HR office emailed me and I emailed back with the name of a sign language interpreting agency. Most HR folks won’t know how to look for one.
That’s because most HR managers are not going to waste times to find and get interpreters for the deaf persons looking for good paying jobs. They would rather you do the “legworks” for them, so to speak. Once I had a HR manager asked me where I can get an interpreter for the interview, despite the fact that her company is a nationally-known company for having various disabled people working there (not just only the deaf). Hello? I had to refer her to a local interpreter agency but I never got the interview because the HR manager never bother to follow up with me (tried contacting her repeatedly but no luck).
Then did you file a complaint against them with the Dept of Justice’s Civil Rights Division for potential discrimination? I think that is what may have happened to you.
see http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8826.pdf
[…] Interestingly enough, many educators of the Deaf might take heed, too: too many deaf residential schools focus on isolating deaf children from the larger, hearing society because of mistaken claims that, “deaf children need protecting” from the hearing world. This does little to develop the esteem, and again focuses on the ego of deaf children (since they think they are so special as to have their own school, and “protection” from the evil, hearing society). Again, if you need proof of Deaf children grown up and incapable of understanding the wider world as it relates to them, then consider the case of a grown Deaf man. […]
Ahhhhh, and so on it goes. Anything NEW??
Lantana, Lantana’s Latitude
Do you have any idea how many people would do this for you free? Even thank you for the opportunity!? Go find some eager sign students, put up with them, and most likely they will do a good job of it because a dance class isn’t that complicated. I would jump at the chance.
Kate -
That’s a great point: using interpreter students. I know a few Deaf and HOH organizations who have used university-level sign language students as interpreters. Why not?
Great suggestion!
:o)
Paotie
Then again, would you stake your college career (and your good grades) on these volunteer “interpreters”? Think about it. This is your working career you’re talking about after you graduate.