Now I’m the kind of person that likes to write in complete sentences without using any slang. It drives me up the wall I get emails from my friends (mostly deaf), or when they write blogs, and they use ASL slang.
I guess because I’m a stickler for using proper English. When I see people writing things that you say in sign (which makes perfect sense when they sign it) it just looks bad. Did that make any sense?
Here’s just a few examples (I can’t think of more right now):
- 25-touches-heart (that took me forever to figure out what that meant)
- for-for??
- impt accept
The reason it drives me crazy because I think it just takes a couple of extra seconds to type what you actually mean (although I don’t think you could put into words what 25-touches-heart means except that). It’s just one of those things I notice.
Oh, I had an interesting experience the other day. I guess I don’t deal with it all too much generally, so when it did happen, it annoyed me. I was taking pictures at a concert, when one of the security people came up to me and started talking in my ear. I pushed him away and said I’m deaf, I need to read your lips. He told me no cameras. And he saw me put it away. My friend came back and then another security guy came over to my friend and told him to tell me that no cameras are allowed, we don’t want you taking pictures, etc. I was like WTF. He saw me put my camera away. Why did someone else have to come up to me and tell me that? My friend said he just wanted to make sure we knew not to use our camera here.
Later in the evening, I had gone out one way to go to the bathroom because I’ve used that exit so many times before. I figured there was nothing wrong with it. The same security guy saw me walk past him and he smiled at me. NO more than two seconds after I come back and sit down next to my friend, the security guy goes to tell my friend that I can’t use that exit because we need to check passes for when people enter this section. I was pissed only because I had walked past him–he could have told me himself.
My friend said, look, he’s ignorant. He doesn’t know how to deal with deaf people; he figured that I’m with you so it’s easier to tell me and then I have my way of communicating with you. I got over it in 5 minutes, but I talked with my friend more about hearing people being ignorant towards deaf people. He said to me that when he first met me, he had NO idea how he would be able to communicate with me because he had never met a deaf person before. So he didn’t know how to deal with the situation. But luckily he figured out that I could sort of understand him, and he was more than willing to repeat stuff if I couldn’t understand what he was saying.
It still surprises me how ignorant people in the DC area can be just because there’s a pretty decent-sized deaf community here. I just hate being treated like I’m dumb, which is how I feel when someone goes to talk to my friend to tell me what they want to say. When I want to tell them is to just: Talk to directly to me. It’s rude, and makes me feel like I’m not important.
So for you hearing people, if you run into a deaf person and you’re not sure how to talk to them, don’t run in the other direction. We just can’t hear; we don’t bite.
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About deaf people having ASL slangs via the pagers/computers, let them go. Why must you be annoyed with it? Must we use the proper English all the time 24/7? No, I disagree. True biz, people can say whatever they wanted — you should get used to it and accept them for their creativity.
So I close this with this: Finish dry hot dog!
R-
What does “finish dry hot dog” mean? I keep signing it over and over…the closest I get is “finish dry discussion” which kind of makes sense.
I’m partial to “0-0-5,” “true biz,” and “serious case.” A slang dictionary would be awesome. They’re fun to use…screw proper English. Using ASL slang is fun and a beautiful celebration of language. Don’t be dumb and use it for resumes or business e-mails, of course, but for friends–go for it.
Adam Stone, you got it right. Finish dry hot dog — means I’m finished with it (like you said “finish dry discussion”, but I select hot dog because it looks funny and amusing).
I agreed that the ASL slangs should not be used for business, professional stuff — never, never — but it is great just to be creative and fire away with creative slangs.
R-
For the proper ASL grammer, the sign reads as DISUCSSION DRY FINISH Don’t you agree?
HILARIOUS
I agree with you–is it really that hard to use proper English? I really can’t respect someone that talks like that on AIM. I quickly lose my interest if the person starts talking in slang.
Never before have I seen such estimable conscience in how one judges others.
fu tnk ry tn ASL Sso bad, try dis lingo I rx on pager from my teenaged kids.
(translation: If you think writing in ASL so bad, try this lingo I received from my teenaged kids.)
Try 2 Mbrace lyf n HF w/o bn stickler 4 proper en.
d mor u gt hng of txt lingo, d btr ur brain wrks. dats d Bnefit.
Patricia gone gangsta
Gotta admire dis woman
ahh?
ah! ur mkin’ me :”)!
was jus givin’ the lady her dues
thanx, man.
That’s so funny. It’s true—text messaging has taken a whole new front with shorthanded writing version. It’s a thrill for me to decipher ASL slangs and word abbreviations. It’s great brain food and by god, English language deserves some scramblin’ here and there. Of course, it’s not recommended when you submit your thesis or legal briefs.
It’s an entire different matter when they just can’t…spell. I eman, it gets frastrating sometms tryng 2 figger out just waht they mean. That’s a bad job.
A good job is: Chk this out, a gr8 rstrnt just opnd. Hafta eat there. Heard it’s champs. Go there, must-must.
ck ot d orsum rstrnt dats jst opnD. hurd it’s gr8 n gotta go der.
Finish dry hot dog = I am bored with your baloney.
text shorthand saves time? oh def no ques! my thumbs would be out of commission if i typed PROPER english all the time, pfft. :)
we shd develop a standardized dictionary so we all can use the same lil words, saving our hands from carpal tunnel syndrome :)
out of PP (or kk) - proportion (in proportion to, or out of proportion)
wuthi (what do you think)
wudo (what are you doing)
fk (i think we all know this one)
pah (this one too)
misundy (misunderstand)
prolly (probably)
brekky (breakfast)
rego (registration)
there’s many more i just can’t think of it right now!
I *handsmack* “out of pp/kk” one!
here’s one:
suggy/suggies= suggestion/suggestions
Here’s another:
flick 8 8 8 = aww…awful!
Those are what I got right on top of my head. Got more stuck in midst of all of my brain noodles.
I also think that in using slang on AIM, that it dumbs down conversations. Can you really have a discussion about the origins of the universe when using slang?
1) Da-know humans tru-biz LONG AGO MONKEES?
2) Eve? ALL DONE, TRAIN GONE SORRY!
3) KA-BOOM!
There you go! Three of the major theories on how we came to be! :)
Cute!
Let’s look at this from another perspective, perhaps using slang is a more effective and economic way of expressing the English language?
What I just said above can be translated into slang with less letters, less words, and still convey the EXACT same message.
Isn’t the point of communication to encode, transmit, and decode the message? Is proper English simply a style?
Aren’t major corporations all the way down to individuals trying to do that everyday? Corporations are trying to make engines more fuel efficient. Individuals always find a way to take a shortcut to get from point A to point B faster. It’s not right or wrong, it’s simply human nature.
Watch your thoughts, they become words.
Watch your words, they become actions.
Watch your actions, they become habits.
Watch your Habits, they become character.
Watch your character, for it becomes your destiny.
So be all means, continue to use substandard English. After all, it’s only your destiny.
Shakespeare would say your English is terrible. But of course that was before it was standardized, in a dictionary, which of course keeps getting many words added to it annually. Anyone remember one of the famous words added last year - “truthiness,” coined by Stephen Colbert? Deaf people develop this weird obsession with using “perfect” english; as an English major, while there is such a thing as proper grammar and usage, there is also such a thing as intentional misusage and change, which allows the language to grow. Why shouldn’t English have Deaf contributions, as well as contributions from some guy on the Comedy channel?
Tsk! Credit goes to Frank Outlaw, not Siddhartha.
I don’t see “Siddhartha” attributed to the quote. It’s the user name.
I used to be a total stickler for proper English. Then all of a sudden I was pretty much forced to accept and learn the chat slang, it was pretty much crucial for my survival :). I say use it but use it appropriately, as in don’t type up a email as such to your manager! :)
13 13 13 13 13… but Friday, the 13?, never!!! :-D
Help! Am I the only one who can’t figure what “25-touches-heart” means?! I come up with “why my heart is so touched,” which can’t be right.
TYIA (thank you in advance)
You got it almost right - there’s no “why”. Make the “25″ sign and touch your heart with it. Basically means, “I’m touched!”
That was the sign that made the most sense; funnily though, I have never seen it signed with both the middle finger and the ring finger touching the heart, only with the middle finger. Could it be a regional thing?
Actually, Belle, your sign for 25 is a regional thing. Another regional variant is to just have the middle finger when signing 25. So, yeah, you’re right. *grin*
oh, perhaps the regional thing is that your “25″ has middle and index bent/wiggling, while the peroson who posted “25 touch heart” uses a variant of “25″ with only the middle finger bent/wiggling. (this is the one i see most often at gally)
:)
also, a lot of the “slang” typing i see in the deaf community goes way back to TTY usage…
q - question
qq - questions(s)
ga - go ahead (your turn to type)
sk - stop keying (ready to stop typing soon)
sksk - hanging up
wud, wld - would
cud, cld - could
shud, shld, shd - should
thx - thanks
hny - happy new year
tmw - tomorrow
pls - please
u - you
ur - your, you’re, you are
other deaf community txt/email abbvs:
compy - computer
addy - address
…
The beauty of “alive” langauges such as English is that it is constantly envolving. If every single person had a patronizing attitude towards using “slang,” we would be using the same version of English as it was used hundreds of years ago. As a linguist, I hate the word “slang” - humans are programmed to seek the most convienent way to communicate. I see the same thing with ASL - there are alot signs that the older deafies hate and call “slang” - i find this very condescending. we use lanugage to express our unique identity - who are some people to decide who are lazy because they simply chose to be creative with words/two languages/etc?
That is how I look at it too.
I agree with how evolution leads to further beautification- but to me, English can sometimes be like your outward appearance. People do notice if you floss your teeth or polish your toe nails. So, sometimes it’s best to convey yourself at your seemingly best- in more situations than less.
But, what the hell. If I wanna, I can!
-Julie,whoalwaystriestoavoiddanglingprepositionsbutonlyforherownfetish,notforthesakeofothers.
I gotta agree with Julie. There is a time and place for slang, both signed and written. A blog or one’s written comments to a blog are one’s face to the world, and more “formal than not” English is probably the best way to go most of the time. That said, I LOVE slang and wordplay. I’m constantly verbing words, combining words, and imitating accents. But again, time and place. (just my $0.02)
I have to say one thing– it’s a whole other thing when it comes to text messaging. (Granted, I don’t use all the short cuts, but I do use what I know and still try to make sense)
I just get confused when people write stuff that doesn’t make sense to me, maybe because i don’t use it or see it all that often. I mean I rather my emails & my conversations with friends to make sense, so there’s no way of miscommunication. when I’m trying to recall a conversation, but that’s just me. =)
Some of the written is what usually confuses me, but the signing, i have no problems with because it’s all a way of communication, and in no way am i criticizing that. Everyone has their own way of communicating, whether it’s using your voice, or your hands. In whatever way, I respect that.
258! GMTA that key.
I’m not exactly sure how to reply to this. The first half of your blog entry irked me. Yesterday, I was told to check this blog entry. However, I just never had time to get near a computer. Then, this morning, I’m reading the Washington Post Express and you were quoted about sign language slang. It didn’t look good, especially for hearing people who have no idea about the Deaf or ASL.
You said:
“When I see people writing things that you say in sign (which makes perfect sense when they sign it) it just looks bad.”
So, “ASL talk” isn’t good enough for you. Joining Erin is Noelle who says she loses respect for those who do not use proper English. Oh, ok, so I guess you lose respect for those who use Ebonics or Spanglish.
People “lose respect” or “mock” some things or some people that they don’t understand. Let’s replace language/slang with gays/transgenders. People don’t respect or mock the GLBT’s because they do not understand those people. In their eyes, GLBT’s aren’t normal.
Anyways, you’ve got to be sensitive and open to a diverse world, including languages and slangs. Besides, who said that one must use “proper English” on AIM and text messages?
As for ASL talk, it is fun and interesting to use this method for communication. People, who speak other languages, often say that the word(s) they want to say just cannot be said in English. Sometimes, there are no English equivalent of that particular word. The same applies to ASL. There are some signs that just cannot be translated accurately in English and that’s where ASL talk comes in.
wait a minute— I Never ever said I lose respect, (those were Noelle’s words) I just said it drives me crazy– just because it’s something I don’t understand. You’re right, I don’t understand it. I do use asl, but it’s not complete asl.
don’t put words in my mouth that i didn’t use.
Read my comments carefully. I quoted you where you said “it just looks bad”. Then I said, joining you is Noelle and then I summarized what she said. I put you two together because both of you didn’t have a positive outlook on ASL talk.
Please read carefully.
Oh, come on. It’s such a strawman argument to connect not liking slang usage to hating gay people.
My point was that people say things (which can be perceived as ignornant, unenlightened or unaware) when they do not understand some things or some people.
People say things, intentional or not, about languages, such as Ebonics or Spanglish as “dumbing down English”. People say things, intentional or not, about people, such as gays, Native Americans, Mexicans, etc.
The reason for that is because people don’t know much about them therefore, and make their own assumptions, which becomes their perceived realities.
And let me tell you something. You might think that it’s a “straw man argument”. However, not liking slang usage and not liking gays isn’t that much different. People prefer “proper English”, I guess because that somehow makes people dignified. People prefer guys to like girls, yadda yadda yadda, I guess because the Bible “says” so or because President Bush said so.
I think it’s ironic that we have so much more access to information to multiculturalism and diversity and yet, people do not seem to be open towards diversity.
Forgot to add a line in 4th paragraph…
Both want others to be someone else in order for one to mete out respect.
Do you use them when IMing with hearing people?
I really, really hate…
1) “Blast time”
2) “Champ”
3) “true biz”
and the winner is…. “remmy”
I didn’t read this as criticism of ASL, just of people’s tendency to use slang, be they ASL or English. Erin Himmelmann doesn’t like both, she wasn’t looking down on ASL.
Same goes for Noelle.
I believe comments of Erin and Noelle reflect the mainstream of America’s position on “using proper English” to mirror a person’s “intelligence”. There is no question that English is technically a “lingua franca” (loosely translate as “universal language”). However, just because it is a lingua franca… does it mean it must be adopted and practiced in virtually all form of communication: adademic, personal, legal, etc.?
Just because it is lingua franca, does not mean anyone should adopt and practice it. Historically speaking, English has not always been a lingua franca. English, like many other languages, is regionally developed by a small group of people who share common understanding. Language is an essential part of our daily lifestyle to communicate our thoughts and ideas to another person(s) or even to ourselves.
If you pride yourself as an intellectual being or as a person who strives on challenge, you would certainly take the time to decipher the message that the “speaker” is trying to convey. Proper English does not equivalent to intelligence.
I don’t mind the occasional slang word every now and then in conversation, but when the entire conversation itself is full of incoherent slang words? It just gets ridiculous when it gets to that extent. Is it really so hard to type out a five-letter word?
Noelle,
it is only “incoherent” when one does not understand or lack patience. There is no question that full extent of “incoherent slang words” requires mental excerise. It is like learning a new language: difficult at first, as time goes on… it is easily and readily understood.
Beside… I think slangs and idioms are really the same. Just that the former is “denounce” and the latter is commend.
Actually, some “slang” and “ASL-speak” may take more time than so-called formal English words. I’m sure Ridor took some time to think of his “hot dog” example :) There are several ASL signs that are difficult to translate in English - that’s why ASL is such a terrific langauge - it has the ability to express certain concepts that English cannot. (”I’m touched” is not an adequate or exact interpretation of 25 touch heart.) Hence, some people may find using certain signs more pratical for their purposes.
Ok, is it not true that some “‘idioms’ may take more time than so-called formal English words”?
exactly, but we still choose to use them - to make it more interesting.
Found this good article about a study at University of Toronto. Says that while teenagers totally use messed-up grammar online, their command of the English language doesn’t suffer when they have to write more formal correspondence. In other words, IM doesn’t ruin people’s knowledge of grammar. Interesting.
I agree with Erin. While I have no problem understanding deaf people signing, it’s my BIGGEST pet peeve when they can’t write normal English. I talked to a deaf “linguist” who has a realy bad grammar and asked him to write in normal English. He went on criticizing me for being a “narrow-minded” and making excuses that deaf people have hard time learning languages. That upset me. We went on arguing for like 2 hours. I told him that they can cuz English is my 3rd language and I learned a few more languages. And I am PROFOUNDLY deaf. I worked hard on becoming fluent in English. Shame on him. All deaf people need is to be motivated and work hard - no excuses for not being able to learn languages. Having a good command of a written language is very important to be successful in this large hearing world.
S,
Let me see if I can understand you… a language must be used accordingly to the larger and mainstream society/world in order to be “successful”?
A written language is a bridge between the oral/aural hearing world and the visual deaf world. Since we are a minority in a large hearing world, we need at least to be able to communicate with them via written language. Just like you won’t respect someone signing sloppily on purpose, you won’t respect someone writing sloppily on purpose either.
Now this is the absolute best comment that has been written in this entire Blog!!!
but many deaf people don’t write sloppily on purpose.
and remember this, not every deaf person is as gifted as you nor grew up in a background as fortunate as yours.
In today’s society, everything must be quick and convenient for everyone and when it comes to text messaging, no one really wants to type the whole words because they’re probably doing something else at the same time.
Personally, I find it annoying at times because I don’t want to spend more than a few seconds trying to encrypt what “wudo” or “rego” means, you know? Call me narrow-minded or old-fashioned all you want, but I would probably respond, “Speak English, will you?”
Almost none of my friends and colleagues use this lingo and this raise a question: is this more popular among those who are in high school or college?
Most examples of slang here seem to actually be ASL wordplay. Hot dog discussion dry, for example. I’d not call them slang; they’re intended to elicit laughter, a chuckle at least. Though maybe some of them do morph into slang terms…
As for deafisms/ deaf slang (deafie, etc), I use them all the time. Using them, though, is to exclude… I am subconsciously making myself fully understandable only to a specific community. So, I’d argue that using slang makes one as uppity as those who don’t use slang.
Thank you, Glenn! Was waiting for someone to catch that. Of course, you being the only one to do that!
Who cannot forget the infamous email you sent to the University Center regarding the “pedophilia cookout at Hotchkiss Field but please do not bring kids!”??
R-
This is all too bloody funny!
Thanks for cheering me up!
“Hotdog dry. Finish!” 13!13!13!
I thought I would add something more substantial than my previous comment about being amused by this topic.
There have been times when conversing with deaf over email or online chat that I have been glad to see some ASL slang thrown into the conversation. In many of these cases it is because the deaf friend does not have great command of English and will have to resort to using gloss or slang in order to make themselves understood. In this case, because I know ASL and am able to visualize and translate the sentence, I do not mind, because this enables us to communicate. Now in the case of my deaf friend in the UK who not only struggles greatly with English but also signs in BSL, a language I do not know this can cause problems for us. It is then, that I wish I either knew BSL, or he was fluent in English because without a webcam to help us along with gestures, we are stuck.
So while I can understand and appreciate the frustration of ASL slang in English conversation, I also am glad to have it because it is true where I am that many deaf struggle with learning the English language and I would rather have any conversation with them than none at all.
The blog postings are kinda informal. Deaf people generally experience the societal oppression 24/7.
Why we ought to formalize ourselves for the sake of hearies? Many hearing people mangle our precious language - ASL on daily basis. We always put up with those hearies. Did we criticize them in the public about their disrespectful way of communicating in ASL?
I often seen in CODAs and professionals of the deaf! Plz!!
Why don’t the DeafDc’s Central Blog have the vlog submittance as part of equal opporunity communication for everyone?
Robert L. Mason (RLM)
Erin, I understand how it feels. I am around hearing people all the time. There are often people, especially in my family who look at me differently than needed be. We cannot hear and that is all, nothing more. I know exactly how you feel.
Yeah, it took me a while to understand some ASL slang, I understand it but I am not used to it. I can see where some of my English writing ability comes from, from knowing two languages well.
See, words are just words, a jumble of scratches. It is the concept a word conveys that is the most important. As long as communication flows, and understanding occurs, I am “fomp” about it all. Not to say that I am conversant in txtng slang!
part of the argument already addressed are coolness and creativity of the language. cropping words for purpose of speed and creativity make sense. also it’s economical for phone text users.
in ireland when i used a mobile phone to communicate with deaf and hearing irish it was mind boggling at first. one deaf irish tended to take out all the vowels and use constonants, a couple others deafies i regularly corresponded with would use english but simplify the words or sentences. can you imagine a 26 letter alphabet on a keypad of the phone with limited space and cost? my thumb became adept punching the number buttons until i got the letter i desired. it does force creativity, especially when you’re bolloxied at a bar.
a dutch friend of mine once borrowed my phone to text someone in holland. when i got my phone back, the words wouldn’t work the way I wanted to. i then found out that my friend had changed the dictionary from english to dutch. so I changed it back on to english. funny how language recognition software works. bit off the point but thought it was funny.
“If you can raed tihs, you can raed aynhtnig! The ticrk is to mkae the fsirt and lsat ltetres saty in pacle” I can’t remember this verbatim, but that was a funny email I got once about the English Language. I think it was even a Harvard study.
Also, there was a recent article about starting to spell words the way they sounded. Like dis - how r u dong etc. It was hilarious. I think we all could benefit from inventive spelling! The English language could use some simplification. How does one spell thoroughfare as it sounds? Thofair, maybe? Unfortunately, I’m a bit too “English” to do a good job at inventive spelling. Just use your imagination.
It amazes me that I could learn English as a second language and remember all the spelling rules! I don’t know how I was able to do that.