DeafDC Commenter’s Criticism of FSSA Beer Chuggers in Today’s Express
By DeafDC.com on Tue 31 Oct 2006 |
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Not only does the Washington Post Express read DeafDC.com Blogs they read our comments too! “The Blog Log” in today’s Express featured the following quote by DeafDC.com commenter Virginia L. Beach:
“Although I have not had a chance to see this victory video at this time…I have to agree. Sometimes victory is better celebrated with humility.”
A commenter on DeafDC.com Blog says that the victory Gallaudet University Students achieved with their protests was soured when twos student leaders chugged beer following Sunday’s news that the appointment of incoming President Jane Fernandes had been terminated.
To see the Blog Log quote, download the file here and go to page 32 (Warning, this is a big file! It will take some time to download).
Virginia L. Beach’s comment refers to the following snapshots from DeafRead’s video coverage of the victory celebration:
Tent City Mayor Chris Corrigan slamming a bottle in front of a cheering crowd.
Corrigan with FSSA leader LaToya Plummer chugging together.
Celebrating Dr. Jane Fernandes’ termination.
There’s more! Eyeth Studio covers this “debauchery” complete with photographs of piles of spent beer cans and glasses along with a really really long beer bong!
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205 Comments
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pathetic, absolutely and completely pathetic. I’m completely embarrassed. you should check out the forums on http://messageboards.aol.com/a.....amp;func=3
an institution for the deaf that is controlled by the students. I’m so ashamed and embarrassed.
What about the faculty and the alumni? Their actions had a tremendous effect on the BoT as well.
sad but true
it is the presidents fault not their drinking and partying… so lets protest to fight for our right to party!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gallaudet, which receives more than $100 million in funding annually from the federal government, was rated “ineffective” this year by the U.S. Office of Management and Budget. The report cited problems with the school’s retention of students and its graduation rate; persistently fewer than 50 percent of undergraduates get their diploma.
AOL message boards should not be taken seriously.
yeah like this board is to be…… =P *poke*
Hey, i was told by a good source that latoya was expelled from msd because she made a lot of death threats to a guy who she “loved.” Latoya was pissed off because she couldn’t get this guy so she thought death threats and some assaults would win him back. it didnt.
It just shows how much she’ll do anything to get what she want. now she’s in the center of attention. we question her motive.
My jaw’s still on the ground.
Chris Corrigan and LaToya Plummer are mislead because they are against JK.
Oh yea…you are correct. These pictures of beer chuggers showed very disgusting! We could not believe with our very own eyes to see how foolish those immature and selfish students were for drinking alcoholic beverages on the property of the U.S. Government! Don’t you think the taxpayers are happy about that? We think not! What kind of leadership do Chris Corrigan, LaToya Plummer and whoever in the spotlight have? Underage!? Shame on you, all students! Tsk…tsk…tsk…you deserve to face the disciplinary action on alcohol-related misconduct! You, all would probably be better off to withdraw Gallaudet for either one semester or year and to attend to an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting! Thanks for ruining Gallaudet’s name! Ironically, you made it to get JKF out and you pay for the price to get out, too. It’s your turn to be responsible to do something for Gallaudet! Act your age and get a life!
They ARE acting their age, which is college aged.
okay this is a 19 year old boy… “colleged aged” WOW he sure is acting his age… lets forgive him.
http://www.wsfa.com/Global/sto.....menu33_3_6
I didn’t know 19 year old boys were known to rape their own mothers. Thanks for your enlightening comments.
What in the Sam Hill does a link to an article about a 19 year old boy raping his mother have anything to do with the Gallaudet protestors? I fail to see any relevance behind this link to the issue at hand. Not only is this a ridiculous analogy, it’s also outrageous and inflammatory.
huh?
get an education… punkybrewster makes a good comparision…
btw for those of you that are deaf professionals…. you can bet your hard ern tax dollars that go to these students in the form of SSI and VR expense money bought that beer…
hell it even funded the protests… sure must be nice to be able to be a slacker and get free money and free ride to just party and become a product of gally… a future SSI check recipent.
Qwerty,
And just what comparision are you and “punkybrewster” trying so desperately to make?
That 19 year old boys raping their mothers are analogous to the Gallaudet protesters?
????
let me make this clear.. the 19 year old boy isn’t supposed to be a comparison to the protest.. i used it as an example of “misguided youth” cuz 19 is “college age”
when your 19 years old you can drive a car, you can buy a pack of smokes, you can buy a shotgun, rifle or handgun, get married, have sex, travel the world, join the army, ect… when you are 19 you are old enough to make decisions… and be held accountable… so it is okay for any 19 year old ot break the law and we are supposed to just shrug it off and go ohhh.. he was just acting his age
punkybrewster,
uh…. nope, still don’t get it. Curses! I guess it was all those SSI/VR checks that did me in. Arrrrrgh.
Raping mothers versus deaf protestors =
one of the more ridiculous analogies I’ve seen yet.
Qwerty,
Yup. Exactly that. So they chugged a beer. Whoopedeedo.
yeah you are right.. i should have known better, i should have realized the kind of people i’m talking to… *obligatory eye roll*
“obligatory eye roll”?
uh-uh, still don’t get that one either. Goshdarn it!
Ohhhh, how I wish I hadn’t taken all those SSI/VR checks! I is truly doomed now! *sob*
On the property of the U.S. government! Nope! They could party at their homes. It is against the law for anyone to possess any open alcoholic beverage on streets, sidewalks, alleys, or any other property owned or controlled by local, state, and federal laws and ordinances.
wildstarryskies
You have allowed young students to break the law by violently drinking alcoholic beverages under 21. Students were in favor of leniency without doing homework and learning about the hard work life. What kind of oppression do they have to complain about ?
I allowed them? You mean, sitting here in NY, six hours away, stuck behind my desk, I somehow gave my “permission” to them? I didn’t get any emails or any kind of contact. Nobody asked me if they could drink.
As for the second part of your reponse, I’m not gonna debate you about that. There are plenty of places you can go to do some research if you really do want to answer that question.
*notification checked*
I don’t get it. What’s the problem? Maybe it’s because I’ve been out of the country, but this sounds prissy and Puritan. If it had been wine instead of beer, would that be acceptable? Or maybe they should circle for a victory prayer? It’s somehow disrespectful because they succeeded in a long fight of several months and celebrated with a drink? I guess I understand you would prefer they be humble, but I don’t see why they need to be, or why it’s so surprising collegiates drink beer. I remember a few protests from my college days which involved beer, and yes, other alcoholic beverages!
I’m just playing Devil’s Advocate, so sorry if I sound like an ass-but I really don’t get the “outrage.”
if you dont’ know … well, let me try and clarify this. Students do not run the show.. they are there to learn students are called students becuase they don’t know **** from shinola. and it’s up to the teachers and the administration to ensure that the “students” get an education as best as they can. in this case the Students would rather cry out for social injustice than get an education.
and they end it all as if it was a fraternity party.
For one thing, it’s immature and tacky. And it gives the impression (rightly or wrongly) that the student protest leaders are only as deep as a shallow pool of beer.
Playing devil’s advocate here too… but for all the yelling and the bashing of the press and other parties for “falsely” portraying protesters as wild, out of control, and not really interested in discussing issues, these images really don’t do much to counter that.
Yes, Alison. It’s been portrayed that way. Look: did they celebrate? Absolutely. Did anyone doubt that they would? No. But, look at these photos, look at where they are celebrating. If one goes by these photos,there is no order on Gally campus. Heck, how many of the folks in the photos are even Gally students. Lots of folks like Malfoy were there, no doubt. So, it’s a celebration (which is completely understandable) where students (of varying ages), as well as random folks, and alumni, are drinking what looks to be a hell of a lot of alcohol on Federal property, out in the open. The new president is going to have a Hell of a job on his hands. And I pity the fool who takes on the interim position.
Saying that they can drink all the beer they want just because they’re in college is somewhat like also using the excuse to dismiss their protests just because they’re a bunch of college students who don’t know any better. Using a beer bong is clearly binge-drinking, and that in itself presents a loud and clear message about their disregard for common-sense safety guidelines. Which ultimately leads to the overall impression that their judgement isn’t all “up there”. Additionally, if the leaders had to move off campus so that more drinking could take place (without reprisals)– who’s not to assume that there were a fairly good share of underage drinkers as well?
Suppose just one underage student *did* get alcohol poisoning- do you really think that nobody will point the finger at Corrigan and Plummer? They’re clearly leaders and rode models and so they should act accordingly. Pushing alcohol as “the best way to celebrate” is not… creative or brilliant.
Joe — it’s about perception. Celebrities are always in the spotlight, and right now, Corrigan, Plummer, Commerson, etc., are in the spotlight. It’s important to recognize (I think) how serious that role is, and to implicitly condone a public drinking celebration as well as underage drinking, is pretty serious. What if one of those students had gone out drinking and driving and gotten hurt?
Anyone who’s in the spotlight needs to practice DISCRETION. That was just a dumb move on their part.
No need to apologize AT ALL. Those of us who fought hard to bring this victory about deserve to celebrate. Joseph-whats going on here is nothing
new. Its called sour grapes!! New web site for these pathic Fernandes supporters. Its called http://www.sourgrapes.com !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you know.. Mr. Coyne, it’s individuals like yourself that concern me and scare me. forgive me for being straightforward but this is exactly what I see when I think of the Gallaudet protests.
Jim why continue to be so bitter? it is over… seems like a lot of deaf people are all about image and being in your face…whats the point do you get enjoyment out of it?
are you a fat old typical deaf male that thinks he knows everythign and sits around collecting SSI and braging how rich he is?
I am not a fat old Deaf man who sits around and collect government checks. I work two jobs and pay taxes like everyone else.
Remember - everyone’s concerned about underage drinking. We’re always getting news exclusives about how this college student died from drinking too much at frat parties and such.
And, was this celebration on Gallaudet University property? Were there ID checks to make sure only those older than 21 years old could drink that beer? If the media finds out about this . . . you can bet there’s going to be an expose on this.
Statistics show that one out of seven deaf people have issues with substance dependence, as compared to one out of ten in the hearing community. http://www.mncddeaf.org/articles/analysis_ad.htm
I believe that’s because they’re isolated and don’t have contact with people who can teach them to drink properly. But then I only work with the chemically dependent…
right, just like the media gives a damn about the drinking going on at all the other colleges. none of this is unique to gallaudet — take it from someone who has been to Stonehill, RIT, and UMass. this whole thing has been overblown. was it the best p.r. move? no — but does it really make gallaudet students look any different than students at other colleges, no.
Does anybody here think that after the Boston Tea Party, the “indians” didn’t go back to the pub and get REALLY smashed?
Yeah, I think it was tasteless FILMING them doing this stuff. I wish they had waited until they were off film to celebrate. Otherwise, I have no problem with the drinking. Of course they are celebrating. That’s understandable. Most of those students did not have a single drink or even party during the last few months of the protest.
They earned it. I think we need to lay off them. They are, after all, college-age kids.
“college age kids” should not have the right to run a university. that’s the whole point….. no one gives a crap about them drinking, everyone drinks.. whoopee frakkin’ doo! the whole problem here is that these kids actually think we should take them seriously in their ‘whine session’ about JKF and they go ahead and pull this in plain sight.
i seem to remember some faculty, administration and alumni at the University protesting too. In fact, 4,000 people were marching at the Capitol. Unless the Gallaudet student population has suddenly tripled, I’m forced to think it was more than just “students” trying to run the University.
Whatever, I’m tired of arguing the point.
Oh, you’re more concerned that it was FILMED?
Shirking responsibility, as always?
Drinking on the stage, especially by Corrigan who is underage, does not give the right message.
Do you know that Corrigan is only 20 years old. A true class act, he is.
But, doing beer bongs, etc. on campus property in plain view, is totally idiotic, and you cannot defend it no matter how you try to *rationalize* it.
It’s interesting you bring up that point. RIT’s Code of Conduct is very stringent. RIT takes their alcohol policies very seriously and put a lot of time and effort into enforcing them. If Corrigan and Plummer did this at RIT, they would probably be asked to appear before RIT Judicial Affairs. I wonder if Gallaudet is more lenient in its policies and enforcement. An alcohol policy and its enforcement helps the University protect itself from lawsuits.
What seems most idiotic to me here is that it seems some of you are ready to write off the protest becuase some college kids went overboard with the drinking and celebrating.
I don’t agree with the drinking out in the open, and yes, they should have wrapped it up and moved off campus if they wanted to party. But I’m not gonna sit around and complain about how they ruined the whole protest because of one night of debuachery. I’m not gonna sit around and criticize them for a temporary lapse of judgement. They just pulled off a SIX month protest where they worked day and night. Where people hurled a lot of abuse on them from all sides. They’ve been through a lot! They’ve experienced periods of complete despair, hopeless and sheer frustration. They’ve been beat up by DPS and the press. Now, you guys are sitting here and beating them up even more.
Classy..
“temporary lapse of judgement?!” HA! I had to laugh. the whole thing was a joke…. Gallaudet university is funded by the government and the tax payers., the students should not run the school…. this on going rant by most of us isnt’ abotu the drinking it’s the fact that most of us EXPECTED this. Being predictable like this is more insulting than the actual incident.
you expected college students to drink.
i’m amazed. contact the psychic friends network.
I’m suggesting we act like adults instead of horrified grandmothers.
i can’t reply to your comment joseph but here’s the skinny… THIS whole thing is on national TV, in the newspapers, all over the media. This wasn’t a civil rights movement, this was one big whine, and catching latoya and chris on stage like that doesnt’ help the stereotypes that will develop.
stereotypes that deaf college students drink beer? oh the horror.
Stereotypes that deaf people do not give a **** about society’s laws and code of conducts.
Think about that, please.
wildstarryskies,
Let’s assume that Chris Corrigan and LaToya Plummer got on stage, explained to the world that the protest is not over, that many systematic changes need to be made and everyone continues to go to school on an oppressive campus.
They could go on to explain that those who opposed the protest should be treated with the utmost respect and they should be embraced and heard, just like they wanted to be heard to during the protest. They should not be intimidated, just like the protesters were intimidated.
That kind of inspirational message, a la Martin Luther King and Nelson Mandela, would have gone a long way towards persuading the world that their cause was just and their intentions sincere.
Simply portraying the situation as an “us” versus “them” situation and then celebrating the smashing of the competition with a orgy of alcohol is the protester’s only public message to the world in response to the termination of Dr. Jane Fernandes’ termination.
We need a message to interpret so that we can understand. Corrigan and Plummer made a decision that they wanted to make the act of chugging alcohol in front of a frenzied audience their message in response to the Board of Trustee’s decision.
If you are upset with Corrigan and Plummer’s decision to make that their public message, perhaps you should be upset at them, not at the people criticizing them?
I’m not upset at them. They made a mistake, and it was dumb, but it wasn’t deliberate. They were caught up in the emotion of the moment. I’m sure right now, they are going, “ooops. my bad.”
Haven’t you done something without thinking about it first before? Especially at such an emtional moment? I know I have.
The reason I’m upset with others is that they are trying to characterize the whole protest from that one incident. Their real interest is not finding a resolution or criticizing them for their actions. Their real interest is using this incident to prove that they were right along.
In other words, all I’m hearing here is the “I was right, they suck, the students are stupid, the protest is crap!” song.
Not that I’m speaking to you, but I do think you could give them a little more credit. They have done a lot for Gallaudet. I believe in FSSA and GUAA and I know that this is not the end of it. There is a great potential for change. I know the students are committed. They’ve proved it.
wildstarryskies,
Yes you are right, there are people who are looking for mistakes such as the one that Corrigan and Plummer made so they can capitalize on it to prove that they were “right” about the protester’s intentions. Like Policy Wonk said above, becoming a celebrity places a burden on people like Chris Corrigan and LaToya Plummer who must be mindful of the public eye.
My vision of the four DPN leaders in 1988 is one of Greg Hlibok, well-dressed along with the three other leaders leading chants of “Deaf President Now” after Zinser’s resignation. I don’t recall the DPN leaders saying that they “won” or defeated a “villan”. My memory is vague, but I remember them looking forward to the actual selection of a Deaf President. Their goal was not yet achieved and they exuded positive vibes knowing that they were one step closer to their goal.
If someone asked me to describe the conduct of the four DPN leaders based on what I read and watched, I would say that they were mature beyond their years, conducted themselves with class and dignity, and were fabulous signers and presenters (I must give credit though, to Corrigan for showcasing some absolutely stunning and beautiful ASL, he is a talented signer. Eye candy, no doubt.).
Now, THAT’S something I agree with, Shane.
I feel the Gallaudet protestors could have been better dressed. When I protested in the UK, I wore suits. We wanted to be respected and listened to, and we also wanted to show respect to those whose attention we were trying to get.
Still, this whole thing is a *really* minor issue to be talking about, but I guess it’s a good way to distract from, oh, I don’t know, 20 years of no improvements in DPS communications skills, a murder, and the basic admission by Fernandes that there’s something wrong with the Board of Trustees…
Joseph Rainmound,
If the protesters wanted us to focus on the the REAL issues that you just outlined, perhaps they should have reiterated those grievances in their first public statement after the announcement of Dr. Jane Fernandes’ termination?
The community *MUST* focus on those issues, but it is difficult to do that with the public messages that the protesters are sending people outside of Gallaudet campus.
joe, it’s hard to wear suits when u live in a tent. :)
Now, wait a minute… There was a huge party that was out of control when Zinser resigned during DPN. The student leaders partied hard with everyone else. Just because we didn’t have the internet back then doesn’t mean everything was done nicer back then.
Are you kidding me?
You are angry that it was filmed, what a great George Bush moment there. Its not a problem we knew illegal wiretapping was occuring, its the fact that it was reported. Brilliant.
So what are they, college kids who make a mistake, or great role model leaders fighting for a just cause? Cant have it both ways.
And to answer your question, no. The people in the Boston tea party did not go to a pub and get smashed afterwards, they went to a coffeehouse.
They could just be great leaders who made a mistake. I mean, even Clinton had Monica. But of course he was overage.
I am disappointed that in your fight to combat poor analogies, you provide an analogy to a situation where the culture is different, the philosophy is different, and the lifestyle is different.
Ever since the Boston Tea Party, there were several things that changed:
1. Gallaudet University was formed.
2. Public media became widespread with instant news.
3. The internet was created and accepted in a widespread manner.
They may earn it, but they should be wise enough to not publicly flaunt the rewards earned.
Finally, I’m pretty amused that the protesters, who loudly proclaims to the very bitter end, that they are one of the neatest freaks around, provide such huge abundance of litter after just one day of ‘partying.’ How does that help with their public image, hmm?
I wasn’t around Gallaudet during DPN. How did it end?
Did the four student leaders go on stage to announce their victory with beer bottles in their hands and chugging together?
No, they didn’t. What they did, they entered a monastery where they dedicated their life to God and spent the next 15 years in mediation. Then when they left the monastery, they fought poverty and found a cure for cancer.
Ah, so they knew the idea of humility.
Johan.. it was a joke. I was being sarcastic. If you guys are going to deify the DPN protesters and compare them to the current Unity people, well, then..
I believe Johan was joining in your sarcasm, and making a joke himself. His point however, differed from yours …
Sometimes I wish I could write a blog on how sarcasm is a fine art- lost too far often on deaf people. But then again, I often miss the joke if told in ASL. Fair is fair. :)
Shane,
To answer your query about how DPN ended, that’s a good question. Perhaps my experience can give you some insight. I wasn’t there on campus when the DPN folks received the good news but I was there when the victory party started at the old Abbey bar. In fact, I was a mainstreamed senior high school student living across the river in Arlington when the DPN revolt broke out. I skipped classes every day for a week, contributed my car to the blockades of the gates, marched on the Capitol, pumped my fist in the air for the Cause, etc. Except for a few people at MSSD, I didn’t know a single soul at Gallaudet College (it was a college back then, yo) but I had nevertheless joined my brethren in support of the Cause.
I was watching TV when a news flash came on with word of Jordan’s selection, etc. I hopped in the car and burned rubber to the campus, running lights all the way. I wandered around the campus and wound up at the Ole Jim house. I had been standing there only a few minutes when someone burst in and announced that the Abbey bar was going to be opened and that free drinks were going to be served for all.
I was at the front of the mob that surged across the green to the bar; I remember looking around and laughing at the excited hooting that resonated around me. The Fight was over and all this stress needed to be released. Someone unlocked the doors to the Abbey, we flooded in, and within minutes free drinks were being handed out left and right. Being all of 17 years old at the time, I have to admit I was ecstatic to be drinking with the older college students. I joined in the bellowing and backslapping taking place; the mission was over and the troops were standing down. What I recall most in the few hours that I was there in the Abbey was the sheer jubilation, as well as exhaustion, at the success of the DPN movement. Granted, looking back now, I don’t have all the details as to what the DPN leaders said or did when they received the news or how they celebrated. I do recall Greg Hilibok (sp?) working the room. In fact, I followed him out of the bathroom at one point and much to the delighted snickering of everyone, he trailed a particularly long segment of toilet paper that was stuck to his shoe all the way down the hall and into the Abbey. Well, I thought it was hysterical at the time.
I encountered IKJ’s children who were approximately the same age as me. They were pleasant people; I secured them drinks and we chatted at length. When IKJ appeared, bedlam erupted. It was as if Moses himself had wandered into the room. I joined a number of large students in forming a defensive perimeter around IKJ as he was literally mobbed by star-studded students. He got up on a chair and spoke for a few minutes. We, the self-deputized bodyguards, then escorted IKG to his waiting car where various people gave him hugs and gave him a resounding farewell.
Now, I don’t know the full story about the whole Abbey incident, whether the drinks were looted or whatever. What does concern me at this point in time is the tenor of this discussion taking place re: the chugging of the beer by the student leaders. Were Chris and LaToya and whomever else wrong to have done this in such a public display? I agree that they could have exercised better discretion and could have done this and that, be more humble and civil, maybe provide an inspiring speech invoking peace, humility, letting bygones be bygones, do the imbibing away from the seemingly ubiquitous cameras, yadda yadda, whatever. I winced myself when I saw the video but only because I knew that the anti-protestors were going to have a field day with this. But at the end of the day, all they did was drink a beer. In light of the egregious acts of aggression and violence that took place against the protestors by Gallaudet police/security officers (whom after 3 murders on campus in 15 years, STILL don’t have proficiency in sign language?!), I say:
so what?
Oh, no! Now the wrath of an enraged public, nay, an angry God/Lord/Creator/(insert deity) shall surely heave fire and brimstone upon such irresponsible acts of boozing! *hysterical shriek*
Please. What I personally don’t understand is why, in the course of events that have transpired recently, this whole beer-chugging thing is transforming from a mere mole hill to friggin’ Mt. Everest. How utterly convenient to launch sniping potshots from behind the boulder of anonymity, particularly when such vituperative comments do nothing to advance rational and intellectual discourse. We have far more important issues to discuss in this forum regarding what hopefully will be a productive healing process at Gallaudet but, unfortunately, for whatever bizarre reason, a number of individuals with personal hatchets to grind continue to billow smoke and fire where there’s clearly none.
Well didnt the protester say they wanted a president that would lead their school into the future?
Didnt they say they were upset about the graduation rate? doesnt what happened on sunday night show the world about the truth at gally? that it is a party school… I am sure back in the day there were many deaf professionals that walked out of the gates of gally… with higher professional ethics… what is it with kids today they think everything is owed to them and they dont have to work for anything?
Gallaudet, which receives more than $100 million in funding annually from the federal government, was rated “ineffective” this year by the U.S. Office of Management and Budget. The report cited problems with the school’s retention of students and its graduation rate; persistently fewer than 50 percent of undergraduates get their diploma.
I liked that *hysterical shriek*
I’ve been trying, but some people are just determined to paint the protesters in the worst possible light.
yeah, no kidding. I don’t know if it’s because of Halloween or what but I find it bizarre to be reading all these people hatin’ on the protesters DAYS after Ferrandes was terminated. A little slow on the uptake, I guess.
I’ve been trying to look at this from two different angles.
I won’t lie, folks…after I found out about the BoT’s decision, I went out to the local pub near my house and had me a large pizza with two Long Island Iced Teas (and if you’ve ever drank those things, all it takes is two!)
So yes…a part of me does acknowledge the need to celebrate, and I have nothing against that. But I do think that one needs to use a little common sense, and recognize where to draw the line.
I do agree with wildstarryskies that filming this celebration was pretty tasteless. I don’t think that was such a smart idea, because it does convey an image that isn’t exactly the one I’d like to show to the world.
What concerns me most is whether or not this celebration is in fact illustrative of the whole attitude of the protest - the fact that many blogs have referred to it as “We Won!” troubles me somewhat. I’ll be talking about this in my next two blogs.
I’m not totally comfortable with the idea of viewing this protest in “winning” terms - because to me that symbolizes the whole concept of Power-Over that I discuss in Part 2 of Understanding the Protest. The protest shouldn’t be about winning…but about creating change.
Celebrating because the change is happening? Great! Celebrating because you managed to “oust a villian” out of the presidency? I have a problem with that.
Virginia,
Excellent analysis. I have been watching the protest Blogs for some kind of plan or constructive approach towards the selection of the next Gallaudet President. If the FSSA and the protesters come up with a constructive response to the termination of Dr. Jane Fernandes and what the next steps are for the future of Gallaudet, deaf education, and deaf children like “Gideon” at the Mosdeux website then people could have more respect for them and some could decide to become supporters.
However, if the FSSA and protesters do not develop a response soon and simply continue to post pictures and content lauding their “victory”, then it may give credence to the belief that it was simply a personal vendetta against a “villan” and not a desire to change a broken system.
I sincerely hope that the FSSA and protesters do the right thing…and soon.
They will. I’d bet 50 dollars on it.
I’m sorry i dont’ have much faith in that. =/
Don’t worry. They’ll prove you wrong.
If not, can we burn an effigy of them?
We will be sure to use brandy as good starter and share the rest.
November 5th is coming up….
November 5??
If you’re talking about the midterm election, it’s on November the 7th. Not 5th.
Shane
My professor and I had discussed the major subject of deaf culture. Therefore, we are not teaching in the traditional way of teaching deaf culture; we are changing the way we teach deaf people about life. I have collected some information from the hearing parents who have a right to what they want deaf children with cochlear implants, that will benefit deaf and hearing people in a social environment to help them to better communicate. This is a big reason that the deaf world only has been angry and hateful.
My professor is a little worried that deaf education will may fall behind the level of grade in the future.
Greg Hlibok who was the president of the student body in 1988 and was actively involved in Deaf President Now (DFN). He was my favorite and I was watching him on TV when I was a teenager at the school. It had influenced my emotional feelings without doing anything illegal or immoral.
I could see that he didn’t discriminate on Jordon’s sign language is SEE.
The guffssa can and will celebrate how it wants
If you were closely following the protest on the
blogs you would know that the coalition expects
a better and more transparent search process.
I do not represent the coalition in any official
way. Just repeating what I ve seen posted else
where. If you have ANY problem with the celebrating of this hard earned victory-go shove it.
Jim Coyne,
“Shove it” … isn’t that is the type of attitude that turned off the protesters in the first place?
I don’t know wildstarryskies, I wish i could say i agree with you, but it’s just a mess right now. It looks bad and I’m ashamed of them. I look at my co-workers faces when they say “you gonna protest or somethign” and even though they say they are kidding, i’m not sure if they are. There’s too many stereo types and they take forever to overcome. this whole protest didnt’ have an inkling of consideration for those people who’s lives they might ruin. When does the value of social identity justify the lives they have or could ruin?
You were already ashamed of them when the protest has started. Have you tried analyzing your own feeligns and how it affects your perspective into the matter? And why do you feel that your coworkers have a right to judge you? They don’t know the full story. Speak up for yourself and explain it.
Once again i’m brought back to my dilemma, reality. it doesn’t matter what you can or cannot do, opinions and stereotypes rarely change. They are simply modified or reinforced, never changed. you never know what they say behind your back… and what they know to be rude or not appropriate they keep to themselves. That’s my greatest problem with this whole protest… it was an empty protest and it’s all over in the newspapers. I shouldn’t have to be stereotyped because YOU felt it was right to enforce a taxpayer funded university to follow the fanatical social guidlines.
And you don’t have the right to declare a whole protest invalid just because you disagree with the objective.
The problem here is that you were already feeling shame, and it is backfiring on you. You see this in a negative light because of the societal attitude and perception you are bringing to this situation.
It can’t be a comfortable life, worrying about what people say about you. I feel for you. This protest has you so worried about what people think of you.
Oh, and stereotypes CAN be changed. It seems to me that a hundred years ago, people thought women couldn’t vote, make rational decisions, go to college and get a degree, survive without a man to support them…
They were wrong. If you want to give in to stereotypes and accept that that’s the way things are, that’s your decision. However, it would be nice if you could try to be more objective this protest and try to view it not so much through your own personal prejudices.
I’m just saying. I’m sorry if I offend you but that’s what I’m seeing from a lot of people, not just you. People are bringing their ideas to the table and refusing to reexamine why they have those ideas and where they came from.
It’s very sad and frustrating for me to watch.
Are you kidding me? So, if he believed the protest’s objective to be wrong, he can’t say the protest is invalid for him? Doesn’t the person have a right to have a different viewpoint to your own and draw different conclusions?
As for stereoetypes, I don’t think anyone denies that they can’t be changed or diminish over time. However, at the same time, it would be ignorant to deny that stereotypes do exist. That’s why this protest is so personal for a lot of deaf individuals outside of Gallaudet because it has all the stereotypical ingredients in it. At the same time, it provides an excellent opportunity to address and attack those stereotypes.
I’m afraid that you have constructed a stereotype of your own in your replies. You have become an ardent defender of the protestors, turning a blind eye to any misdeed committed by them, and anyone who dares to venture a disagreement with the protests or share a disappointment with the protest leaders is instantly typecast by you as narrow-minded, cowardly and ignorant.
In another post you declared that the nature of the replies was becoming too heated, too combative and unconstructive. Yet you yourself indulged in your own insults, and attacked ardently anyone who disagreed with your viewpoints. You failed to acknowledge the possibility for different viewpoints that may draw different conclusions and mocked the ones who did without looking at the content of their replies, instead nitpicking on specific sections of replies.
“a blind eye”?
That is absolutely not true.
1. I did not support the campus lockdown or the campus lockdown.
2. I thought chugging beer on live feed was a stupid thing to do and said so very clearly.
What I am so frustrated with here is that people are using their viewpoints to abuse the protesters. If you’ll notice I’m not attacking people such as Shane. I don’t agree with him, btu I don’t tell him his opinion is invalid. I have presented my arguement to him logically as I can and conceded points when he made them. I am responding to those who are determined to label this protest as a completely negative thing, without giving good reasons why other than based on “I was embarrassed by what other people think”, or “They can’t deal with the real world” or some such arguement.
I don’t have an arguemetn with you. You’ve always presented a logical, reasoned arguement, and I do apologize if I inadvertly attacked you. That was never my intention. Looking back over our conversation, I realize I may have overreacted to you personally.
Yes, there are steereotypes throughout this whole thing, yeet, it does not and should not define the protest as a whole. To say that this protest is defined by stereotypical beliefs is a very insult to the hard work and soul searching we have all went though.
I have felt my frustration build up throughout reading this blog. My feelings and emotions have been bottled up for so long. I have not yet begun to heal. I cannot focus on work. Something very important happened and I’m still making sense of it. I have nobody to talk to about this, not offline. I keep waking up in the middle of the night, feeling that something is not right. I get online, and there are people lining up on the door to say “they suck! you suck! the protest sucks! deaf people suck!”. I’m trying not to react emotionally, and I do recognize I have slipped into doing that in some cases.
And yes, I am defending the protesters. They have deserved it. They went through a lot and scarified a lot for what they believed in. I respect that and it hurts me to see how people have been putting them down.
You think I suck. Fine. Join the crowd.
All I did was believe in something and stand up for it.
wildstarryskies,
touche!
you are not alone.
Ahhh, Monday morning quarter-backing again, eh?
Ok, it was a slip in judgement, let’s not have a cow over that! For whatever it’s worth, I remember someone saying a week or so ago that the students made a vow not to drink during the protest lest people say (and they did) oh, those kids just wanna party.
DT,
I was very impressed when the students vowed not to drink during the protest.
Does that mean that the protest is over? Is it really over?
The kids wanted to party. Tent City was nothing more than an excuse to sleep in the outdoors on university property, not attend classes under the guise of “righteous protest” and complain to the news media on how they were being oppressed.
Get a life.
Wildstarryskies: They spent 15 years in mediation? What issue was so complicated it took 15 years to “mediate”?
it’s a joke, you know.. ha ha hee hee she was being sarcastic.
::woosh::
I appreciate Virginia Beach’s analysis as well as responses from wildstarryskies and Shane. When I saw them chugging beer on video, my first reaction was that I’d rather them use discretion. But I found myself next in a forgiving mood and gave myself a small chuckle–they’re STUDENTS! College is a place where they learn from their mistakes. Please understand that there are several individuals with Ph.Ds who are involved in this protest whether explicitly or implicitly so we should not single out students. I recalled reading an article in L.A. Times a few years back about a sole survivor of the UHAC trial hearings (McCarthy witch-hunting trials). He was asked in hindsight how he felt what was happening back then (he was one of those indicted for refusing to name the members of the Communist Party). His response floored me but I admire his widom: “Do not look for villains. They are not out there.” Even though I’m glad the BoT sacked Jane Fernandes and in essence and in effect to change the system within Gallaudet, I don’t see Jane as a villain 100% though she may be guilty of many heinous acts. In fact, I’d suggest keeping Jane as an employee but NOT in a position where she can intimidate others but with her skills that can benefit the University. In other words, don’t demonize Jane nor the students and any other protestors. It’s about taking back our DESTINY. And, lastly, lighten up.
Right, I agree. the more Dr. Fernandes is referred to as a villain, the more her claim that protesters were just hurling verbal weapons at her gains credence. She IS human. Clearly, she IS intelligent. I don’t agree with many of the things the media reported her saying, but that’s what it was, conflicting visions of leadership for Gallaudet. It was never, as some people like to think of it, a battle between good and evil.
While they may be college students, the acts they committed took them beyond the status of merely college students. The issue became an ugly one that embroiled every deaf individual throughout the United States, even if you weren’t in the know about the issues of the protests, it was likely someone would ask you what was going on there at Gallaudet.
Therefore since those student leaders took on a role that made them very public, they became no longer just “college students”. The issue no longer became just Gallaudet University. It became something much larger for American deaf individuals.
In that role then, it is recommended that they act with some responsibility and realization of the enormity of their role in the protests. I don’t give a damn that they were college students. They stopped being one the minute the protests started.
Oh I see. You were against the protest since the very beginning. Then I can see how the beer thing would “justify” your very beliefs.
Hmm.
How convenient you ignore the effigies, the threats levelled aganst the Jane’s family and herself, and well, Corrigan’s underage issue.
Hmm!
Seriously, wildstarryskies, are you looking at everything through a narrow prism? What is the point of your reply? You disagree that the student protest leaders took upon a larger role than beyond just being college students? What?
Please try to make constructive replies rather than insults.
I didn’t insult you. I just pointed out that you were using the information to justify your beliefs.
And personally, I don’t think the effigy or the underage issue is a big deal. Did you drink when you were underage? Come on.. tell me the truth..
No, I’m sure you were a complete saint and didn’t touch a drop of alcohol until you were 21, right?
The threats, I don’t condone, I have never condoned them. Just because some people decided to 1) send out threats, 2) burn Jane in effigy, does it mean that the protest itself is flawed? No.
It just seems to me that you WANT the protest to be invalid, so you’re looking for excuses.
That wasn’t an insult. That was an observation. And yes, an constructive observation because it might be helpful for you to recognize that you are bringing your bias to the table and interpreting the events to your liking.
And yes, I agree that the students should have behaved better for the celebration. That said, there really is a nitpicking issue going on here. A temporary lapse of judgement.. so? They have behaved admirably 90% of the time!
Where is the constructive nature of your first reply? Finally you took the time to put down your thoughts, now let me reply in courtesy.
One, I rather hope the protest to be valid. I am actually glad that the protest has more or less ended, with Jane ungracefully released from her position. It had to be done.
Two, the point of my comments was that the “temporary lapse of judgement” is that it is actually significant. They aren’t students anymore. They took on a larger role and needed to recognize that. In that momentary lapse of judgement, they sullied the significant impact of their victory - with beer-chugging and burning an effigy. I actually find the latter more abhorable. These “students” are suppose to be intelligent, considerate and thoughtful, yet they burned an effigy of a woman who was elected to a position (however unfairly) and who herself did not commit any crime. She certainly was no Hitler, or a murderer. What did she do to justify that? By minimalizing the act of the effigy and the beer-chugging event, you are in effect, condoning the acts. In agreeing that the students couldve been better behaved, you recognize that enormous role of those students beyond Gallaudet. Which is my point.
It tarnished the protests, period. The threats, the effigy, and the beer-chugging were shameful acts, period.
Does that mean I think the protest was invalid? Personally, I think Jane should’ve been given a chance to prove herself, but because she conducted herself appallingly during the protest, she nullified any justification of giving herself the chance. It was right in the end she didn’t get the opportunity because of her conduct during the protests.
That all said, I do sincerely hope that success comes from the protest and for everyone concerned. However, I will also willingly criticize the protest leaders for those acts of effigy, the threats and beer-chugging events. If that pisses you off, so be it. You may think its nit-picking, but I don’t. When someone takes on a larger role, every action is analyzd and this has to be recognized.
Also, I’m shocked you think an effigy is not a big deal. Honestly, come on now … how would you feel if an effigy of you is burned on national television, threats levelled against your family? And all you wanted to do was to lead a community. You never committed a crime, you never murdered anyone, you never ordered a murder, you are certainly aren’t on par with Hitler, Stalin, or Kim il-Jong. What was your crime? You got elected unfairly, you are too stubborn to listen to anyone, you refuse to communicate but want to lead those same people. Well then, by all means, its justified to burn an effigy of you! It’s justified to threaten the lives of your family and you! Its justified to drag your name through the mud!
Shameful, starryeyes, those acts were shameful. For you to say otherwise is pure wilful ignorance.
Point: They burned Zinser in effigy too. She didn’t cause half the problems Jane did.
Was that protest shameful too?
*sigh* DPN was a protest of civil rights. it only makes sense that there should be a deaf president for a deaf university. now comes the presidency after IKJ, we get a deaf candidate decided by the BOT and a protest ignites. what’s that tell the world? every president appointed to Gallaudet has a chance of be protested? what’s the problem here? simply cuz JKF isn’t the poster girl of the zionist culture she gets opposition? Like i said, students are exactly that, students, young people that are starting a life through educational experiences. I’m sorry but this whole thing just seems like a huge whine session. and the taxpayers who are keeping YOUR school around see what has happened, THEY matter it’s THEIR money, not the students of Gallaudet University, they are there to make connections and learn something in order to start a successful life, instead they decided to camp out and scream. end of story.
Everyone keeps saying “college student,” we must remember that Gallaudet is NOT a traditional University.
When we think “college student,” we think 19,20 and 21 years old. These are still kids and can be forgiven their mistakes.
However Gallaudet does not have tyical college students, the average age for Gallaudet and many of the protestors and even the Student leaders are in their mid to late 20’s.
They are no longer children these are adults who should know better and have to take responsibility for their childish actions.
“Average age”
http://alumni.gallaudet.edu/en.....=11/5/2004
Undergrad freshmen, avg age is 21 years. We can pretty much figure that for the rest of the undergrad age population would average about 24 to 25 years old. Just an estimate.
Grads are a different story. Average age is 27 where they go for their masters and doctorate.
Yet, did we see mostly undergrads who did the protesting?
Comments:
-Yeah, they should have been more discreet about it. No need to get on stage and down a beer in front of cameras…
-Gimme a break…these kids are in their early 20’s…they just endured the longest college protest in U.S. history…they deserved a drink or two in my book.
-When I was in my early 20’s…ah…never mind…;-)
J.J. Puorro,
I really like your comments on DeafDC.com. I must ask: is the protest over?
Technically yes- the tents are no more. No more disruptions and shutdowns. But viligance for a better Gallaudet continues.
Good, because it would be a tremendous disappointement if the protesters laid down their arms after the announcement. The termination of Dr. Jane Fernandes was a traumatic decision for the entire University and community.
Perhaps if the leaders publicly wept with joy and expressed hope for a brighter future, many would have lined up behind them in full support.
Shane,
From what I have read…the protest is far from over. Maybe “protest” is the wrong word to use because we are no longer protesting per se. Let’s call it a “movement” now. The movement is long from over, we need to ensure that the selection process is done fairly this time around (doesn’t matter anymore if it was done correctly or not the 1st time, just make sure it is this time around). Then the new president needs to focus on the “audism mandates” and ensure that everyone signs on campus…at a remedial level at the very least. Then perhaps, the BOT needs to be reorganized. The GUAA needs to be rebuilt. We all need to take NAD more seriously as well. The NAD has been “weak” in my mind for far too long. It’s time for people like myself to go to NAD conventions, donate money, and utilize NAD’s services. We all need to empower NAD and strengten the deaf community that decisions are no longer “made for us”, but “made by us”. When I say, “us”…I mean ALL OF US.
Bottom line: We can never forget the lessons this protest taught us. We as deaf people need to control our destiny for better or worse.
Curious, do you think it was empowering for NAD to take a such strong stand on the movements? Could they have alienated those who disagreed with the protestors’ tactics? Or is it time for NAD to revamp its overreaching mission from a target audience of “30 million” to a much narrower segment of the deaf community?
3 great questions JT!
1.) Yes, I think it was empowering for NAD to take a stance.
2.) Yes, I am sure NAD alienated a lot of people. Still, I felt that NAD supported the protest at the right time. In May, they only wrote an open letter imploring the BOT to listen to the community. It wasn’t until the “Gallaudet PR Machine” went to work that NAD jumped in. I saw Scoggins at a rally and I came away impressed. I felt that she really cared about the community at large. Great selection for president BTW. Remember, in the beginning the protest started out a bit rocky with unclear objectives other than the two demands…later on the protest evolved to cover many other issues. I have always felt that NAD’s position was that the BOT failed to have a finger on the pulse of the community and that needed to change.
3.) No, I do not think NAD should narrow it’s target audience. However, remember there is also the AGB association that serves the deaf community as well. I think it’d be great if both organizations somehow could come together and work together. That way all 30 million deaf people will have the backing of a strong organization to fight for their rights.
I tried my best to answer your questions, JT. The deaf community has a lot of work to do going forward. This “movement” is far from over….still I am happy that it all happened..it has woken up a lot of us who have been “sleep walking” thru life just accepting a lot of BS. I have a real good feeling right now about the future of the deaf community…and I hope we all will stay strong and fight on. We really need to have a CCEN movement (”Close Caption Everything NOW!”)….that’s my greatest hope right now…
JT — thank you for bringing up NAD. When the Newshour contacted me yesterday, they wanted to know if I felt that NAD served the entire deaf community. Well, I hedged. I said that I believe that NAD looks out for the interests — legal, educational, civil rights — of the entire deaf population, but that people do *perceive* them as representing the signing population. I also added that since AG Bell exists, that people may consider AGB as representing the oral deaf/hoh population and NAD as the signing deaf population.
Definitely something to think about — how does NAD’s support of the protest reflect on them as an organization that serves the larger deaf community?
NAD was not looking for face time on TV? Why NAD jumped on the bandwagon at the last minute?
NAD loves to join the winning side?
Hooray and they deserved it for only one night. They did not planned to get drunk @ all. They just celerated and in much of shock that Jane s FIRED. And many of various of people (church people, VIPS, students, FSSAP, and others) partied together as Big ONE. It s not abt Plummer Or Corrigan. It s almost everyone and I admired them because I was there as well chuggin some beers. Bur in fact, it was notu enough to get everyone drunk because it was not enuff beers to pass around. So SHUT UP and move on healing processing. Thank you.
I love you all bec you deserved well done handwaving from me. It s in past. Today is new day. Smile
“So SHUT UP and move on healing processing.”
That is not a good first step towards healing. It is an attempt to impose your will on others.
We need healing, and the best way to heal is to repair divisions.
what we need to do is educate our deaf children better. this batch or generation if you may, is damaged beyond repair. best of luck thanks for the feelings of shame and lack of consideration. =)
Agreed.
Yet, nitpicking on some Deafies’ selection of celebration isn’t “a good first step towards healing” either.
what’s gona happen when you dont’ like the next president the Board of Trustee’s put’s up? what if they put up Foley/
Who is Foley?
I’m very confident that we won’t protest again, at least not for a very long time. The protest had been a very difficult experience for everyone. Everyone’s truly done. If a small group’s to cry ‘protest!’ when the next president is announced, they’ll have almost no followers.
But if Richard Roehm is appointed, all bets are off :)
wow… you dont’ know who foley is. and you expect me to take your comments seriously? it’s been on the news for weeks.
and yet you expect us to take you seriously after you mentioned a “what if” scenario of the BOT putting Foley as president…
puh-leeze.
HELLOOOOO MCFLY! sarcasm.. hee hee ha ha *slaps knee* you know?
Boy, what a protest that would would have turned out to be if Foley was put up there. =)
Yes, We know about Foley. The closeted anti-gay Republican who chased after underage (teenage) pages.
So? He has nothing to do with what is happenign at Gallaudet, and BTW, he was busted for his behavior two, three weeks ago. It’s old news.
This discussion is somewhat moot since it’s a joke in the first place.
Yeah I know of Foley’s scandal. Things slip from my mind from time to time. So?
Excellent comeback Larry. I think that Virginia Beach’s comment (#30508) above is a must-read for you. She asks what kind of message the celebration gives us. Maybe the message was unintentional, but it is a message nonetheless.
Do you think that a better message could be conveyed? If so, what kind of message should the protesters and FSSA give to the world? The protesters need to give us a message that shows us they are better than the Administration and the removal of Dr. Jane Fernandes was justified.
Chris and LaToya clearly weren’t thinking about sending a message to the larger world. It’s pretty obvious that at rallies, they and other leaders are only concerned about the impact they have on fellow protesters, not anyone else.
Ben M.
Should Corrigan and Plummer be concerned about the message that they are sending to everyone else?
Absolutely. Probably the topic of my next blog. :)
Shane, I agree with you and Virginia in regards to conveyed messages.
However, like WSS said, it was a “in the moment” thing. Could it have been done better? Certainly.
Nonetheless, it happened. I’m sure we all wish we could go back in time and undo some stuff. Yet, there is no such thing. All we can do is move on. Yet, it just feels like some people just want to replay the Corrigan/LaToya beer chugging incident and castigate them repeatedly. It’s getting old…fast.
Like other people are saying…move on. Yet, I have this sinking feeling that some people are just not quite ready to move on. They want to vent and blame and just about everyone is a potential target.
Larry and Ben,
Perhaps the best thing that the FSSA can do now is hold a press conference and announce their official reaction to the termination, express sorrow about the divisions in the community that the protest has caused, and explain why this decision is good for Gallaudet and the deaf community. Finally they should give us a hint of what the future holds for all of us.
Give us a speech along the lines of “I have a dream” that will inspire both sides to strive for a better future. We desperately NEED that kind of message.
This would be a good public relations move. It is over THREE days since the termination was announced and we have yet to hear a peep from the FSSA or protesters except a public display of beer chugging.
How is the public supposed to respond to a void of new information from the FSSA and protesters (GUFSSA still has the BOT announcement at the top of their Blog)?
Their absolute goal, in my opinion, has not been reached but they are acting like the termination of Dr. Jane Fernandes is just that.
The FSSA isn’t alone in a lack of PR moves since Sunday. I’m still waiting to hear the official University position on what’s gonna happen next.
Allison,
The problem here is that I. King Jordan and Dr. Jane Fernandes have already publicly posted their reactions to the decision. Don’t you think that the FSSA should post their reaction to the decision as well? It has been THREE days and nary a peep from them.
Also it may be a good idea for the FSSA to preempt the Gallaudet PR Office’s announcement on what will happen next. The FSSA should outline a vision of the future and describe what they think Gallaudet should do from this point on. That way we can measure Gallaudet’s decisions against the FSSA press release. Right now all we know from the FSSA are the two simple demands, Dr. Jane Fernandes’ resignation and no reprisals. They got the first item they wanted, does this mean they don’t want to fight for anything else?
If Gallaudet issues their PR first, the FSSA will have a very hard time explaining to the world that they are still not happy.
I’m not arguing with you, Shane. YES, definitely, the FSSA should have some kind of statement out about future directions. (And btw, technically, it’s been 2 days… not that anyone’s counting, *ahem*) Your last statement, about beating Gally’s PR to the punch in order to keep up activist appearances is also especially valid.
I only meant that it strikes me as strange that, given the time that has lapsed, there is no PR message of unity (from either the FSSA or the University). So far, other than a handful of blogs given to thoughtful discussion, mostly I see, on one hand, a whole bunch of blogs declaring, “WE WON!” and, on the other, four statements from the University that certainly do not smack of collaborative spirit to move forward.
But, yes, yes, I agree with you - for the FSSA to do something proactive - and SOON - would be in the best interests of the values for which it claims to stand.
Shane, perhaps the FSSA is out partying like the rest of the people?
It’d be kind of two faced of them, IMHO, should the FSSA come out with a letter of pain, regret, sorrow about the split in the community, etc…etc.. Humilty kind of loses its flavor the longer they wait.
As for “resprisal”, it means retaliation. There is no retaliation if a person breaks a law and thus pay the consequences of that action. Nobody wants to be accountable for their own actions except blame other people for “forcing” them to act on their own free will (note the irony of words used here). The word “reprisal” is one of the biggest and overly abused word during the protest. There were plenty of reprisals aimed IKJ and JKF. That’s for sure. It was certainly an acrimonious protest.
The FSSA just issued press releases at their website GUFSSA.com, apparently there was a press conference yesterday morning.
The FSSA issued a letter to the Washington Post today. I’m not sure if the Post will print the letter. But there is an editorial in today’s New York Times by Leah Hager Cohen…(I know it’s off the point, but…)
McConnell,
The FSSA isn’t out partying. If some of them are partying, that’s fine. They feel they achieved something and want to celebrate it. I sense that condescensing attitude from you again.
To characterize the entire FSSA as partygoers is inaccurate. My concern with this Blog is with the FSSA’s public messages (standing on a stage and making public statements/actions in front of videocameras is a public message).
They can party all they want, but the public messages must be carefully constructed and articulated.
seems like FSSA has too many spokes persons… didnt someone do a blog on this subject? too bad they cant get their act together with responsible leaders for FSSA.
well the deaf community is small and heard when ever it makes a noise by hearing and deaf people… and I cant say that the actions of the partying crowd on sunday night helped hearing people understand the recent events or to come support us be made them more confused and unwilling to support or understand what is going on.
Shane, how about leaving out the “you’re condescending again”? I have my way of expressing myself in seeing the irony here. You peg after me, however, seeing there are several other examples of condescending attitudes from other commenters but I don’t bother to point them out. Do I? I don’t need to say this….again.
If you’re overly protective of FSSA, fine. They’re not perfect either. Hence, the discussion we’re all having so we can “heal” ourselves. Let the discovery process work itself out among all of us as we forge ahead.
Uh, no. Shane isn’t the only one. Wake up.
Far as I’m concerned, he’s trying to do you a huge favor. Deliver a little differently, you’d have people listening. Arrogrance blinds.
mcconnell,
To be honest with you, Shane is correct. I see it very clear and it is not necessary. The comments can be done better and more appropriate. Example: responding to comments with dignity, respect and grace. We care about you and want you to realize it.
I appreciate the comments. However, this is how I express my displeasure as my way of saying that the FSSA is no saint, either. They, too, cranked out the propaganda machine. I’ve said before, this is everybody’s mess and each of us must acknowledge our own party to this mess somehow. I have said my “mea culpa” a long time ago. I make no apologies in expressing my cynical side towards people or organization. Like I said, we’ll have to let this work itself out. This is not something like a spigot and just because JKF is out doesn’t mean all of us can just turn the spigot off. This more than just about a leadership, it was about everything, just about every issue on the sun that was kept underwrap during the protest but people won’t admit some of these things or fears about Gallaudet. In short, hypocrisy abounds about people’s real fears. Why? Because we are all humans. To say that there aren’t other real underlying issues is hardly to be believed in this case.
We’ll see later on if people actually walk the talk.
Shane and others, I don’t agree that McConnell was being “condescending” by saying implying that FSSA was out partying instead of beginning the work of unifying the community. I think too, Shane, that you’re expecting rather a lot out of these college kids, if you think they’re going to help shoulder the burden leadership from here on out. You said: “The FSSA should … outline a vision of the future and describe what they think Gallaudet should do from this point on. … They got the first item they wanted, does this mean they don’t want to fight for anything else?”
Actually, I bet FSSA thinks their work is done and it’s up to the grownups to clean up the giant snafu they created.
Right. Look at Jill Bradbury. I commend her for the speedy effort in putting together a panel of bloggers (and among other things) that will be open to the public to discuss the various issues that were discussed by many bloggers ever since this May…and even before that, too. Jill started with this idea two weeks ago and it was by her own initiative, too. She recognized the potential and the opportunity to get these things nipped in the bud very early on by bringing select bloggers aboard. This is her baby and she is the one person, and not a group or an organization, who got this ball rolling.
Curious Eyes,
These individuals accepted a responsibility when they decided to represent the protesters and become the public face of the protest. They are FSSA leaders and keep in mind that the FSSA consists of the “Faculty, Staff, Students, and Alumni”. So it is not unreasonable to expect the leaders of this group to shoulder the burden of the protest leadership.
It would be a major disappointment if the FSSA thinks that its work is done. The FSSA is not only the students, but also grownups like Faculty, Staff and Alumni. They should, and probably will, continue to monitor the selection of the next President. And they shouldn’t stop there, they should continue to ensure that their concerns are addressed such as audism, racism, shared governance and other issues that fueled the protest.
Like almost everyone here, I thought Chris and LaToya could’ve used more discretion. But it was an euphoric moment after months of extreme frustration. Considering that so many commenters here are hostile to protesters in the first place, I don’t expect them to empathize.
Ben M.
If they don’t empathize, are they guilty of the same mistake that I. King Jordan and Dr. Jane Fernandes made?
I would hope that the protesters take a higher road and lead in the way that they expected IKJ and JKF to lead the community.
I agree completely with ur 2nd paragraph.
Me too. I believe in them. But I’m with you. Hello, people. Say something.
Pointed questions need to be asked of the presidential candidates about their plans to address declining enrollment, heightened educational standards, and the role Gallaudet should perform in deaf education, as in, raising the bar for deaf state schools that serve as feeder schools for Gallaudet students.
Gallaudet is buckling the issue of whether it should or shouldn’t be a remedial boarding school. Kind of hard to keep accreditation when you have a miserable education coupled with a miserable graduation rate. \
I would also suggest a wider pool of candidates since I’m not satisfied with the current crop, who are involved in deaf education, but are also associated with the failure to educate. Perhaps it’s time we selected someone outside the deaf educational field.
That is actually an excellent question. First of all, I would not be so quick to accuse those of being involved in deaf education as beign failures, at least not the people I know nowadays. A lot of teachers I know are good teachers who work hard and believe in their children. The system is often the problem, the parents are too. It is not just the teacher’s fault. :)
That said, if we wanted a deaf person to be President, then we do have to recognize that the pool of candidates might be limited to certain fields due to opportunities that have been historically available for deaf people. In 20 years, sure, many options, but if we want someone with years of experience who has been around for a while, they will most likely be in the field of education, social work or some associated field.
One thing I absolutely feel is paramount this time around is to search CAREFULLY, taking in consideration not what’s on paper, but also that person’s employment history (past references, etc.)
Brenda Joe Brueggemann mentioned two things: “We had to think of Gallaudet’s unique role as an institution of higher education but also as a ‘CENTER’ for the deaf community, nationally and even worldwide.”
Are we expecting to secure Congressional funding also for the CENTER? Is the next president supposed to juggle between two things (institution and center)? How about having the next president to appoint two new deans and close the existing one provost position? I think the organization chart needs to be restructured and approved by the trustees first before sending out the presidential search announcement.
Is the President of Gallaudet University also responsible for MSSD and KDES? If so, wouldn’t that make this role different than any of the other university presidents?
Not directly. Clerc Center (MSSD/KDES) has their own Dean. The dean reports to the Provost, and the Provost reports to the President. So, technically, the President does not directly manage Clerc Center, but it is under the umbrella of operations of the POGU (President of Gallaudet University).
Good questions!
Are you saying that the Provost is responsible for the Clerc Center AND Gallaudet University? How is the Congressional funding handled? An inquiring mind wants to know.
Ultimately, yes. However, the Clerc Center Dean reports to the provost, so the provost is not responsible for the daily operations of the Clerc Center. The Clerc Center is given a budget of around $27 million annually (I think that information is available on the University budget website, not sure of the URL right now), and that budget covers everything from teacher salaries, resources, bus transportation for Kendall, dorm staff, cafeteria food for both schools, and the National Mission of dissemination and publication of products created by both schools — as well as the Gallaudet regional centers (Northampton, MA, Oholone, CA, Flagler, FL, Kansas, and Kapo’ali, Hawaii). So that $27 million budget is spread pretty thin.
Wow, it’s bigger than I thought. Thanks for explaining.
Now, THAT is an interesting idea which should not be dismissed lightly: bring in someone from outside the deaf educational field.
I assume some people here have read Jane Maher’s (1996) biography of William Stokoe? Similar issues at Gallaudet regarding academic standards, coherence of the curriculum, and whatever else then have eerie parallels to what is the status quo now. President Elstad (way back when in 1950s) had a report from the Middle States Association of Colleges and Secondary Schools which blasted the quality of what was offered at Gallaudet (echoes here, anyone, with the recent PART report?).
So what did Pres Elstad do? He brought in George Detmold (PhD from Cornell) who: “had absolutely no experience with a deaf population … It was the beginning of a new era at Gallaudet. Detmold had no prior loyalties to anyone at the school; he had no preconceived notions about deaf people; and he was given free rein to hire new faculty, change and improve the curriculum, and institute new policies. His task was enormous” (Maher 1996: 30-31).
This is not to say that *everything* that Detmold did was stellar, but it raises interesting questions about bringing in ‘outsiders’ with ‘no preconceived ideas’. In relation to this, should we be looking for the new president with a sense of expectancy rather than expectations? The former are more open-ended whereas the latter may be more closed-ended.
Food for thought here? Anyone care to discuss?! ;)
I read that book, excellent book by the way, and the funny thing was, Detmold - who was hearing- was not popular at Gallaudet, he was, in fact, blasted for hiring Stokoe, for having higher expectations from the students, and for firing a popular deaf theater teacher (the teacher was quoted as to allow the students to nap during class “to rest their eyes”).
I mean, “NOT ONLY what’s on paper”
By the way, folks…
If I might be so arrogant as to shamelessly advertise myself …Part 2 of Understanding the Protest (which I mentioned in my comment made way up above) has now been posted, and of course you can also find Part 1 here on DeafDC.com as well. Perhaps reading those will give you more of a sense of where I am coming from.
WOW! It’s been exciting to see how a simple little comment I made has generated some interesting and thought provoking discussion, and I must say I am enjoying reading everyone’s comments, regardless of whether or not I necessarily agree with them. I think you have all had some valuable things to say and some good points have been made.
Keep up the good work, folks!
I heard about Lynn Jacobwitz joining into the protester students who stood together in front of the offices, and she was arrested. It was because she is an adult, and she didn’t obey or follow any laws or code of conduct; instead, she violated the orders. Shame on Gallaudet faculty or students.
Dr. Jacobwitz was NOT among those that were arrested on October 13. Stop hearing things and start seeing things for yourself.
Actually, one of the live blogging sites on Black Friday did report Jacobowitz as being arrested. I asked around and found out she wasn’t — but that site (scallionstallion) never recanted that information. She just wasn’t added to the list of arrested persons that was being listed on the sidebar.
She initially sat down with the protesters, but stood up a few minutes later and stood on the side while the 133 arrested were carted off. She was never arrested.
The sit down was just a photo-op and something to put on her office wall.
I predict that someone here have already emailed FSSA telling them to have a press conference to convey that they are not deaf bigots, they can be classy, take a higher road, and present the false perception that it is indeed *already* an inclusive university, even through several students/staff/faculty/alumni of color don’t think so.
Hmm, would I be wrong? See-see.
Know what I think? Talk is very cheap these days. Want to start the first of many steps of restoring trust among deaf students of color at Gallaudet? Noah Beckman of SBG needs to resign, and very soon. He has failed miserably to represent the minority constitutent of the student body. That choice has played a significant contribution to the division of this deaf community. Sorry, either they are serious about “housecleaning” on all levels …or they are just talking, talking, talking.
KBM, on Gally-Net, DeafDC.com, CBS news website, etc. you are coming off as really angry. I really respect your brilliance and concur with almost all of your points. But…your strident tone sometimes turn me off, and I am a person of color (isn’t this a popular term nowadays?!) so I desperately do not want to feel that way. Now, you are saying Noah Beckman needs to resign. WHY? Why him? Have you talked with him personallly? Have you come down to Gallaudet between last spring and now and talked with any one there (students of color, SBG, Fac, Alumni, etc)? Im just trying to understand why you have target Beckman all of a sudden.
KBM, speaking of the devil
http://bibliomarket.wordpress......h-beckman/
Why Beckman? It’s housecleaning time to make room for social justice, isn’t it?
Seriously, because he is the President of SBG. He was entrusted with the responsibility of representing all of the students, not the “white majority”. How was he going to unify the student community if he blew off a certain segment?
Now, having that said- this posting was made last night, before Noah’s interview came out this morning. That was what was needed. I applaud him for telling the truth of what happened- wished it was sooner in the game, we could have avoided some of this negative emotions coming from us, including myself. I know I sound really angry- I *am* indeed angry for several reasons that I don’t feel like going into here. People sprouting the call for healing, it sounds fake. It’s like this- I do a hit and run on your car- you saw me but I fled the scene- the next week I come to you and say, “come on, let’s stop being mad, let’s get along, we’re of the same community, let’s work together.” Would you believe I’m sincere if I said that…or would you believe it if I said -”I hit your car last week, it was me, I had alchol (sp) in my blood and ran off like a coward, thought about it, felt sick the whole week, now I’m apologizing, I have enrolled in a AA, and here’s some money to cover the cost of the damage.”
Not sure if it’s a good analogy. It’s hard to explain, but that’s how I feel. I guess there comes a time where racism can push a person to his/her boiling point, and I have reached it. It will come down eventually, but history will not go away even if people want to gloss over it and “move on”.
You’re joking!!!! I can’t believe this!!! Told ya she aint real on CBS news with Katie. A real pathetic event! Heads up! Dont vote for either leader in November. LOL…
Isn’t Latonya Plummer 32 yrs. old??
Now Now…. we cant make fun of those that are on the extended college plan… after all they need to learn socially, experiment with drugs and booze and grow emotionally before they can focus on their studies…
After all the deaf community seems to champion those that arent serious about getting an education… and those that go off to college and get a real education and a real job making real money arent considered to be deaf enough… after all he or she who can smoke the most joints and drink the most are the coolest of the cool.
seems like some deaf people are smart enough to take advantage of the world and others are dumb enough to go to Gally and make nothing of the world.
Its stupid! They have nothing better to do with their life.
Hearing college students are the same. Trust me.
No, she is not, she’s 25, around that age. I was in grad school when she graduated from MSSD, so I’m pretty sure my math is right.
Then she should have sense enough as a leader…in public.
she should have graduated by now… she is 25! thats 7 years in college for a 4 year degree…
25 years old? Not so bad, two years younger than Dr. Irving K. Jordan was when he graduated from Gallaudet (born 1943, graduated 1970).
Seriously, is school a race? No. There are plenty of 21-year-old college graduates where I am, and I so wish they would have some life experience.
I know I may be like 200th comment- but please read this one!!!! Latoya plummer is in the protest for her own motive. She didn’t care about gallaudet. Ive known her for the most of my life. She LOVES attention and will get it at ALL cost. If she doesnt get it, she’ll go at any length. i felt sick to my stomach when i found out that she is on national t.v. she talked so smooth as she prepared herself. on the local channel, latoya couldn’t even talk in smooth tone- i see two different personality. again, thats how she is. i think she is here just to get fame and pride. I believe what is happening to gallaudet, but i do not believe a thing what Latoya had to say!!! i do not think she deserve a medal.
Im with you! Was she in the NBDA?? which made her a leader fo FSSA? She didn’t even use anyone else or any memeber of FSSA to particpate in the interview!
Please, Janice, let’s keep personalities out of this discussion, and focus on the issues. If you want to assassinate someone’s character, go to “Draco Malfoy”’s blog.
Looks like one of the sisters done sold out. Why does this not surprise me? This has largely been a lily white protest about “oppression.”
Please. You know nothing about oppression until you’ve walked a mile in a deaf black man’s shoes much less a deaf black woman.
Chugging beer? The protest comes off as an excuse to feel “important” and have a party at the same time. Self -validation anyone?
Oh I see. So everyone else’s experience is invalid, that they couldn’t POSSIBLY have experienced oppression if they are not deaf and black. Hm.. What about jewish people? I guess the HOlocaust wasn’t oppressive. Oh yeah.. what about women? They can’t walk out at night for fear of getting raped. In muslim countries they could be raped and killed for showing an ankle. They aren’t oppressed either! A deaf person who was passed over for a job promotion for a hearing people with less skill isn’t oppressed either. Heck, even a white guy who is stigmatized because he’s gay is not oppressed.
You are SO right. I bow down to you, O nubile queen of oppression. I bow down to your wisdom, knowing that YOU don’t oppress other people. You are certainly not like Charles Taylor of Liberia who sent out his goon squads to kill millions of people. You are not like those fundamental, bigoted black priests who preach against gay people and condemn them, saying they’ll go to hell for spreading aids.
most of all, black deaf people NEVER oppress each other!
Yo uare SO right. I bow to you, my Queen/King of Oppression. Tell me more, please. Tell me more. I am not worthy of your presence.
Why do I have this very strong feeling that there may be elements of sarcasm in the above posting? :-)
I think she’s being serious man, she didnt’ even break the stare. O_O
Yeah. Well, it’s just one of my pet peeves when some claims to have the corner market on oppression. EVERYBODY experiences it in one form or other. We can’t fight oppression if we do not recognize that ALL of us experience it in one form or another, either overt or covert, in different degrees, across all walks of life.
So, yes, I got saracastic. I hope I made my point.
That you did.
OH come off of it disgruntled deaf person of color…. I’m so sick of people using race, creed, or some kind of disability as a crutch to anyone’s problems. This kind of attitude doesn’t anything or anyone. Probably only in fantasty land. I really loathe people who pull this card…. even in my workplace if you pull this crap your in for a long ride.
Did you see Noah Beckman’s acknowledgement of exhibiting racist behavior?
It wasn’t an imaginary thing that happened. Noah’s was a confirmation of that.
clarification: noah talked about evident racism. but this thread is regarding a different tangent of that racism. disgruntled person of color accused latoya plummer of selling out and chugging that beer in furtherance of that (so she could be accepted by others.)
that latoya is dissing her own kind is what set off this thread. was that accusation by disgruntled person of color imaginary? wildstarryskies replied to the effect of “stop thinking latoya is acting like that out of a desperate want to be accepted”.
What I am finding interesting is the fact that nearly three days after this incident took place, we are still trading comments about who chugged a beer, why they did it, what it means, how we feel about it, and what should be done about it.
In the meantime, two Guest Bloggers have put up some thought provoking posts well worth reading, discussing their views of the protest and how we can move on. They touch on subjects of power, change, and love.
Okay, okay…admittedly one of those blogs happens to be mine, but the point I am trying to make is this…
What was done was done…and we can’t go back and change it. Regardless of what your opinion of these two student leaders and their actions, it’s time to move on to bigger and better things, and more important issues. If we would rather sit around here and argue about who’s right and who’s wrong, who oppressed who and for what reasons, yadda yadda yadda…
are we really demonstrating ourselves to be doing any better?
Virginia is right. There should be more discussion about the “power” issues that she brought up in her Guest Blog. It is a good assessment of the struggle for Gallaudet’s future.
I agree. Personally, I’ll stop commenting on this response thread and move on to other topics. We all have to move on :)
Gally budget link:
http://af.gallaudet.edu/pdf/26.....xt_Low.pdf
This is for Fiscal Year 2007. I haven’t had a chance to look through it, but for those of you who are curious about the distribution of funds — feel free to take a gander at it.
I agree with Shane and a few others here who feel that the protesters should have conducted themselves a bit more “professionally” a la DPN protesters with the like of Greg Hilbok, Tim Rarus, et al. These DPN guys dressed like they were really serious about what they were doing and talking about. Furthermore, they laid out plans and had a vision.
The current protesters just threw things together as time went along. They didn’t even lay out any plan or vision to speak of. Tent cities in my eyes didn’t contribute one IOTA towards the protest at all. FSSA didn’t even have a mission statement to publish or speak of.
I highly respect the DPN protesters big time because they were demonstrating/protesting for something that was LARGER than life. What I mean is that they wanted something for the ENTIRE deaf community. A deaf leader. These DPN guys didn’t even discriminate against Jordan for not being a PURE ASL signer and Jane was just as good as a signer as Jordan is: she’s not even a native ASLer either!
You know what’s so sad about all of this? I don’t think anyone really will utilize the power harnessed in the protests and use it in much needed areas that affects the deaf community at large (e.g. hard of hearing, deaf/Deaf, late deafened, and so on). For example, we are still largely being discriminated against on many levels: Close-captioning on TV/Movie Theatres/CNN webcasts/news videos/and so on.
It is really pathetic that we haven’t really sat down as a collective community (group) and decided how we all are going to tackle this issue for the generations ahead of us. Are we just a group of apathetic deaf community citizens that are reluctant to get involved en masse and demonstrate on Capitol Hill and other Major Cities to demand that our rights to captioning be preserved, good jobs for the deaf community so that many of us will get off of SSI and other forms of welfare support(now, I know some naysayers will speak up about this part), and many other discrimination issues facing us as a community.
My point is: why does this protest have to just be for the students of Gallaudet? Why can’t we ALL have THE protest for our life rights (captioning, jobs for us, and so on)???
Its just sad that the protests are just going to benefit the students and nothing more. It all just was because people didn’t like ONE person. Even DPN didn’t make it an issue about Zinser. It was about the fact that the deaf wanted to be leaders for a change!
by the way…I didn’t know there was a deaf “B.E.T” at gally….too bad her shirt didn’t pop!
no wardrobe malfunction either, dang it.
LOL…I couldn’t remember a better way to say that!
hey chris corrigan
some many students said you so hot