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here’s the question I was responding to: >> What does anyone think about the deaths of the four U.N. investigators and the accusation that it was a “deliberate” attack made by Israel? I assume that it was accidental, but for some reason, I can’t help but wondering if Israel is overreacting at this point? I understand that Lebanon doesn’t have the power to stop the Hezbollah, but aren’t most of the militants killed yet? Are they recruiting more men every day to join? At what point would Israel would stop to get whatever they want? >>
I really doubt that Israel would fire bombs on the UN inspectors deliberately. It makes absolutely no sense. It’s the one guaranteed way that they could lose any sympathy or support they may have from their allies, isn’t it? Considering its complete disregard for human life, it would not surprise me at all if Hezbollah did it so the Israelis would get blamed. If you scroll down the article you’ll see where it says they do not know for sure whose bomb it was, only that it was a precision-guided rocket.
The military action in southern Lebanon is to root out Hezbollah guerillas so that they won’t be able to fire bombs into Israel any longer. The area has been a Hezbollah stronghold for years. It’s hard to catch them because guerilla fighters are fast and mobile, and Hezbollah has had years to fortify their offensive positions.
Interesting that Hezbollah says they did not predict Israel’s intense reaction. Well then, the thing to do is lay down their arms and surrender. Not going to happen, I don’t think. They’ll fight to the last person because they think they’ll be martyred and go to heaven.
point of clarification… the accusion, according to the Secretary-General, was an “apparently deliberate”.
I think this article may answer your question “whose bomb was it”: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5216230.stm
Curious Eyes, you will see that the U.N. has repeatedly warned Isreal on six seperate occassions “prior the attack” in the first few paragraph.
Later on, the Prime Minister of Isreal immediately apologize and vow to launch an immediate investigation; additionally, he claims it was a “mistake”. The line of reasoning tells me that it was Isreal’s bombs. Why? Like you said “it doesnt make sense”.
I’d sure love to be a fly on the wall of Israeli military central command right now. Will wait to see what their investigation finds out. At the time I posted my comment, it wasn’t clear to me whether the bomb really was Israel’s, and why on earth the bombing continued in that area after the warning calls.
I honestly wonder the same thing… I had to re-read that article along with couple other articles a couple times to finally come to the conclusion that it was Israel’s bombs…
Still I m amazed.
Thanks to Patricia for the geography and history refresher. I did forget all about Golan Heights and Syria.
I recently found out about Israel’s bombs laced with white phosphorous materials dropping on civilian area. That was clearly a violation of the Geneva Convention.
I am not a whiz at chemistry myself. From seeing the term “phosphorous”. It must be kinda some laundry detergent and would cause some eye and respiratory irrianants.
What’s matter with Israel for using this chemical materials on innocent civilains?
You could find more info about Israel’s white phosporous bomb on CNN.
Robert L. Mason (RLM)
please paste in a link to the source of this information. I’d like to read for myself and also know who said it.
I am not a computer whiz at all. I never master the HMTL skills from cut/paste and post anything.
Just type http://www.cnn.com and type “phosporous” and “Israel”.
I got this news from mainstream media outlets from the Reuters and CNN.
RLM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4483690.stm
I found this on BBC..??
A Lebanese Psychologist says it all…click this video link to see what she has to say:
http://switch5.castup.net/fram.....38;ak=null
the link doesn’t work.
Hmm…interesting that Kofi accuses Israel of deliberately targeting UN outposts inside Lebanon. It is the Hezbollah’s tactics to fire rounds
Here’s what the mainstream or nightly news do not tell you and how hypocritical and one sided Kofi Anan is siding with the terrorists.
“Another UN position of the Ghanaian battalion in the area of Marwahin in the western sector was also directly hit by one mortar round from the Hezbollah side last night. The round did not explode, and there were no casualties or material damage. Another 5 incidents of firing close to UN positions from the Israeli side were reported yesterday. It was also reported that Hezbollah fired from the vicinity of four UN positions at Alma ash Shab, Tibnin, Brashit, and At Tiri. All UNIFIL positions remain occupied and maintained by the troops.”
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/m...../pr010.pdf
How quaint. What it boils down to is that the Hezbollah use the UN as shields knowing that they can’t be punished for it because the mainstream press will run with the news about “deliberate” targeting of UN outposts when it’s really about the deliberate targeting of where the Hezbollahs are…right next to the UN outposts.
Also, recently heard that the Retired Canadian Major General Lewis Mackenzie who was interviewed on CBC radio had an interesting report about the UN observer post that was hit by Israeli shells killing UN observers. One of them killed had previously emailed Mackenzie telling him that Hezbollah was using their post as cover.
Kofi is in no position to lob accusations against Israel on the deliberate targeting of UN outposts solely to wipe out UN watchers over there? Please, lets not get too naive here folks.
When a picture is worth 10,000 words on utter stupidity when you have the UN right next to the Hezbollahs in Lebanon.
http://img136.imageshack.us/my.....002ma7.jpg
Your attachment is not coming from the reliable source. How do you know that is the Hezbollah flag??
Israel and her staunch supporters are also guilty for false propaganda, too. Hezbollah and other Arab states are feeding the false propagandas, too.
Let’s nuke on Israel and Hezbollah to shut up both of them!
RLM
Uh, remember this post I just made earlier today (#11502)? Look at the source:
“Another UN position of the Ghanaian battalion in the area of Marwahin in the western sector was also directly hit by one mortar round from the Hezbollah side last night. The round did not explode, and there were no casualties or material damage. Another 5 incidents of firing close to UN positions from the Israeli side were reported yesterday. It was also reported that Hezbollah fired from the vicinity of four UN positions at Alma ash Shab, Tibnin, Brashit, and At Tiri. All UNIFIL positions remain occupied and maintained by the troops.”
http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/missions/unifil
And, secondly, do you not know what the Hezbollah flag looks like?
http://images.google.com/image.....&hl=en
Oh, the source of the picture? That came from a 4 year old story on the internet.
http://www.cjnews.com/pastIssu.....2/main.asp
Makes you wonder.
Also, the last email from a Canadian who was killed by an IDF bomb where Hezbollahs were using the UN’s location as shields.
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/Arti...../20060718/
During a CBC radio interview with retired Canadian Major General Lewis Mackenzie discussing the emails. He noted:
“What he was telling us was Hezbollah soldiers were all over his position and the IDF were targeting them. And that’s a favorite trick by people who don’t have representation in the UN. They use the UN as shields knowing that they can’t be punished for it.”
Who was responsible in putting these UN observers in an obvious war zone?
Kofi, please respond.
Read the Australia’s Herald Sun.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heral.....as_bombed/
“Read the UNIFIL press releases for yourself to learn that Hezbollah has not just shot at and seriously wounded UNIFIL observers - without any protest from Kofi Annan or The Age. You’ll also learn that UNIFIL has repeatedly reported Israeli shelling and bombing near UNIFIL outposts because Hezbollah fighters were shooting from right beside them.” - with links
Makes you wonder about Kofi’s charge about IDF purposely killing UN observers. Kofi’s a nutball and an Islamic terrorist sympathizer.
Here is an article that includes all sides regarding the incident where four UN observers got killed. There is a confirmation to the claim that Jane Holl Lute made several calls to Israel’s UN ambassador asking to stop shelling in the area of the UN observation.
QUOTE
“UN Says Israel Shelled Lebanese Post Despite Pleas to Stop”
By Peter Heinlein
United Nations
27 July 2006
One senior official, briefing reporters on background, said Deputy Secretary General Mark Malloch Brown and Assistant Secretary-General for Peacekeeping Jane Holl Lute telephoned Israel’s ambassador to the United Nations several times to enlist his help in having the shelling stopped.
They said the ambassador, Dan Gillerman, expressed concern and assured them that the U.N. was not a target. A spokeswoman for the Israeli U.N. mission confirmed the account for VOA.
UNQUOTE
Read more at:
http://www.peacejournalism.com.....cleID=9891
And I ask the idiot who was in charge of allowing UN observers in an already war zone erupting on all sides. It’s the charge what Kofi said that I’m gunning after.
Maybe the UN observers were deliberately left there in the first place despite Hezbollah running around shooting from the very same positions? A calculated move by Kofi?
McConnell, I want to respond to your previous post about religious freedom in Malaysia. (Apologies to the rest of you if this seems off-topic.) It was my cue to research the subject further and not rely on my own observations or what I was told. You’re right that religious freedom in Malaysia is a mixed bag. Anyone A non-Muslim is relatively “free” to do what they want within their religion. However, every ethnic Malay is automatically Muslim from birth, and anyone who tries to leave Islam is considered apostate. There is some leeway in how strictly the local Muslim authorities enforce the law. Some Malaysian states and political parties are a lot more strict than others. For example, a certain political party tried to pass a law making apostasy punishable by death. The situation seems even more schizo when you consider two factors: There are two courts, secular and Islamic. The Islamic court deals with religious matters pertaining to Muslims only, the secular court is for everybody else and non-religious issues. The second factor is that the Koran explicitly says that no one can be forced to be a believer! Weird. You are correct that the Malaysian government has used its ISA (Internal Security Act) to imprison without due process, and tortured some citizens simply because they petitioned to leave the religion. I do not believe this practice is widespread, though. Malaysian Islamic courts use caning to punish alleged transgressors. My ethnic Malay Muslim friends never claimed that theirs was a free country, anyway. It kind of goes back to an earlier post about trading aspects of one’s personal freedom in exchange for greater security. Anyway, I still maintain that in relation to other Islamic governments, Malaysia is relatively more moderate than Iran or Iraq. BTW, Condoleeza Rice is in Malaysia today. I wonder why?
I’ll concede that Malaysia is much further along with this limited in their “freedom” than, oh say, Saudi Arabia or Iran when it comes to religious freedom.
Raising funds for the sheer purpose of delivering death to innocents, hanging around UN sites AND civillian areas as a shield and turning these sites into military targets, kidnapping soldiers, purposedly firing rockets into Israeli civillian areas, posting billboards of mutilated Israeli soldiers for IDF personnel to see, and yet, Kofi lashes out at Israel?
It is high time that this ****** leaves the stage. He’ll be fine since he made a bundle from the Oil for Food fiasco.
Oh, also, the reported civilian deaths in Lebanon? How do they/you know it’s not the Hezbollahs they are counting? Hezbollahs do not wear uniforms. Certainly not so if they are trying to blend in with the civilian population and using them as shields.
http://www.news.com.au/heralds.....20,00.html
Damning pictures of Hezbollah in civilian clothings.
“The Melbourne man who smuggled the shots out of Beirut and did not wish to be named said he was less than 400m from the block when it was obliterated.
“Hezbollah came in to launch their rockets, then within minutes the area was blasted by Israeli jets,” he said.
“Until the Hezbollah fighters arrived, it had not been touched by the Israelis. Then it was totally devastated.
“It was carnage. Two innocent people died in that incident, but it was so lucky it was not more.”
The release of the images comes as Hezbollah faces criticism for allegedly using innocent civilians as “human shields”.
Mr Egeland blasted Hezbollah as “cowards” for operating among civilians.
“When I was in Lebanon, in the Hezbollah heartland, I said Hezbollah must stop this cowardly blending in among women and children,” he said.”
I urge you, all to type “Israel and phosphorous” on CNN’s search engine which will takes you to the recent newsreports about the latest Israel bombs with phosphorous.
The civilians of both sides do not deserve any “chemical”-inhaling bombs.
Remmy that the United States of America justifly used the “Agent Orange” to deforest the Vietnam jungles.
Sane thing with the U.S. operation in Iraq and Israel claimed that they used those bombs to smokescreen their army movements, etc.
“Agent Orange” came to haunt the Americans with neurological damages to returned soliders which caused behavioral problems later.
RLM
I have a hearing friend who went to Vietnam and contacted Agent Orange. The military pilot spraying some toxic chemicals in the jungle remove tall grass and makes it clear also easier to kill the enemy. He explained to me that he was not informed about the spraying. Lots of soliders ended up with major health issues. The government had denied for years and then finally come out in the open to get treated.
Another story about the 1st invasion (Desert Storm) in Iraq contacted radiation from the bombing shells. Some of my students expressed to me its hard to sign because of very stiff joints on their elbows and hands. They cannot get a straight answer from the Veterans Administration and they want to know what they are suffering from. They were labeled as “Gulf War” syndrome.
The opinons of the Arab World seems changed and tilted in support of the Hezballoh according to the New York Times (NYT) article, 7/28/06.
I wish that I know how to attach the article to this blogsite. Just check out http://www.nyt.com or type “New York City” on search engine.
Israel is really stupid for engaging in the destruction of civilian residences which resulted in increasingly resentful of Israel.
Israel ought to send in the special commandos and Mossad agents to infilirate the Hezaballoh militas in the first place. That will be very cost-effective and logical strategy.
RLM
RLM, to link an article to this blog site: open the web page that you want to attach. put your cursor in the Address field of your web brower. RIGHT-click and select Copy. Then go to the blog’s comment box, RIGHT-click, and select Paste. That’s it. You can also use keyboard commands (Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V) for the same thing.
Regarding your comment about commandos, mossad agents, and strategy: you’re right that it’s been a strategy issue. The question was whether to rely more on air strikes or on ground troops. both strategies were borrowed from the U.S.’s approaches used during the gulf war. You can read about it here at BBC.com: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5222064.stm
This article from the Peace Journalism may interest you.
QUOTE
A War Without End?
By Sélim Nassib
Libération
Thursday 27 July 2006
Against an inflexible Hezbollah, Israel no longer counts on anything but force alone.
Today, an international military force that would cover the border and open the way for a Lebanese army would allow (almost) the whole world to express a sigh of relief. But, in the meantime, the systematic destruction of Lebanon continues, feeding a hatred in the hearts of Lebanese that, paradoxically, Hezbollah’s rockets express. The present crisis advances this way, on a razor blade, and everything can upend at any moment.
Read more at:
http://www.peacejournalism.com.....cleID=9910
UNQUOTE
Patricia, that article was somewhat circuitous and difficult to read, but the parts that caught my eye are as follows:
“…there exists a tremendous international, Arab, and Lebanese consensus to *neutralize Hezbollah* in southern Lebanon. The United States and France godfathered the Security Council resolution requiring its *disarmament*.
“Hamas could be party to the consensus, so different are its course and its interests from those of Hezbollah…. [Hamas] pursues the much more concrete objective of having an independent state in Palestine. Proof of that is that just at the moment when the war against Hezbollah is in full force, Hamas makes it known that it is ready to conclude a separate agreement with Israel including the liberation of the kidnapped corporal, withdrawal of Israeli troops from Gaza, and a subsequent liberation of Palestinian prisoners.”
“… this reversal obviously does not please everyone. On the eve of the announcement of the agreement, a party of Palestinian military (belonging to Hamas and other organizations) and the Hamas leader in exile in Damascus, Khaled Mechaal, launched the operation that ended in the kidnapping of Corporal Shalit and the wildfire that followed. Several days later, Hezbollah opened its second front in the north of the country.”
“… a real division has arisen in the Arab and Palestinian world between a large majority who are moving towards a historic compromise and a *minority* who do everything to prevent it.”
“… Israel will refuse to withdraw to the 1967 borders, although that’s the very condition of a universally accepted settlement. Most probable is that it will continue to implement… completion of the wall that cuts the West Bank… ”
I think accepting the terms of the proposed compromise doesn’t make sense for Israel. The record is clear that not all components of the Arab world (political parties, Muslim subgroups, nations, and militants) complied with all parts of previous compromises. So long as violent extremist groups like Hamas and Hezbollah continue to operate, any compromise will most likely not be followed. The Arab world needs to put its money where its mouth is, and take responsibility for reining in the guerillas.
There’s no question that Lebanese civilians are the victims here. However, it seems to me that the Lebanese government is now reaping the consequences of allowing Hezbollah to operate freely within its borders. Regardless of how popular Hezbollah was in 2000, it’s clear they’ve long outworn their welcome and have become a liability to peace in Lebanon.
Curious Eyes,
Here is my analysis of the article written by Naasib.
The author, Selim Naasib, explained that as long as Israel occupies some parts in the Middle East and bombing Lebanon, the more Arabs will support Hezbollah–the organization that does not outline a constructive objective.
Whereas Haamas is more reasonable because they pursue a “concrete objective in having an independent state in Palestine.”
However, Nassib pointed out that the longer Israel occupies, the more angry Arabs will support any organizations against Israel. Since Israel would not comply to the international agreement, the war will continue.
Nassib also emphasized and warned that Israel is just a small country in the Middle East and it’d be in the best interest of Israel to consider a peaceful solution to the conflict.
Now I’m discussing your comment to the article. You’re demanding that the government of Lebanon should rein the groups like Hezbollah. While your opinion is common, I would for you to come up with a creative solution outlining that it is possible for a government to rein a group like Hezbollah without causing civil war in Lebanon or a full fledge war all over in the Middle East?
I would like to clarify that I’m neither taking sides with any of the nations nor organizations. My main objective is to achieve a peaceful solution to the conflict in the interest of humanitarianism. I’ve been training myself to listen to other sides and contemplate . . . There’s always more than two sides to every story.
Hey Swetha,
Perhaps this article interests you.
QUOTE
Israel, Lebanon and Palestine: Cornerstone for Peace
by Dr. Hubertus Hoffman
Peace is possible!
Despite current television images, viewed in a historical context, peace is possible between Jews and Arabs.
The history of Europe proves this, where centuries-old ancestral animosities have been transformed into friendships, e.g., between Germany and its two largest neighbors: France and Poland.
Real peace, however, must be “instigated”, as so appropriately stated by Immanuel Kant.
True peace requires common values and interests, parallel political goals as well as a government-mandated, desired reconciliation between peoples. Peace politics historically requires immense patience and daily efforts lasting over many years; it must be able to withstand numerous setbacks and disappointments.
Read more at
http://www.peacejournalism.com.....cleID=9894
UNQUOTE
Patricia, don’t take this the wrong way, but aren’t you being a little naive here? I too believe peace is possible between countries and civilians — Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Palestine, etc. I *don’t* believe peace is possible so long as extremist militant Muslim terrorists are allowed to operate unopposed. A *solution* may be possible, however. The first step is for the extremists to be disarmed and disbanded. I believe that the majority of the Arab Muslim world agrees with that. The terrorists know that, and threw a wrench in the works on July 12. Israel’s Muslim neighbors must take responsibility for the Muslim extremists in their midst. When they do not, they are tacitly condoning criminal acts, and doing so is contrary to the teachings of Islam.
As I’ve mentioned before, at the root of the current conflict is a religious war — Sunni against Shiite, and Shiites against Jews. So long as radical Islamic terrorists claim a divine right to “eradicate” Israel from the face of the earth, there can be no peace.
Curious,
Well, there is another side to the coin, as long as Israeli government maintains its occuyping power, there can be no peace.
Are you saying that the United States ought to help Israeli to eradicate Arabs?
Like I said before violence begets violence, and conducting war against terrorism is not the answer; as well as terrorism against occuyping power is not the answer.
I strive for a peaceful solution to the conflict in the Middle East. The first step is to listen to the other sides, including Syrian and Iranian governments as well as Hizbollah and Hamas.
Patricia, occupying what? Southern Lebanon? Israel fully left every square inches of it in 2000. The Sheeba Farms? Not even Lebanese territory (according to UN). The Golan Heights? Land that was won in a war *caused by its Arab neighbors*. Just give me an example of another territory that was lost in a war and subsequently given back. This is practically unheard of. Gaza? Didn’t Israel show its good faith in leaving it in its entirety less than one year ago -with what results? Sadly but true, the irresponsible Palestinian actions are compromising the chances of seeing a future Israeli withdrawal from the West Bank (which Israel DID express interest in doing). Time to come to your senses, Patricia.
Most respectfully yours,
UN Observer #8278432798.
No matter what, they’ll find a way around this incredibly unheard actions of Israel giving the land back won (4 times!) in a war by saying that Israel is the aggressor.
Never once did they offer any proof that Israel’s rallying cry has been “Death to all Muslims!!” Compared to the constant battle jihad cries “Death to Israel! Death to all Jooooooooooooooooooooohss!”
Makes you shake your head.
Clarification:
As long as Israeli government maintains its role as occuyping Power in Palestine, there can be no peace. That’s what some members of Arab Nations have been saying time and again.
Once again, I’m utterly against violence of any kind, war and terrorism including occupation. I am all for a peaceful solution to the conflict.
War and terrorism do not solve the conflicts.
That’s all.
Patricia, it’s easy to be “against” war and terrorism since they do not affect you directly. I’m “against” war and terrorism too, but I will fight to the death to defend myself and my loved ones if it were within my power. In other words, for self-preservation, I will absolutely return violence with violence if that’s the only way to stay alive. I too believe that diplomacy, communication, and compromise can resolve most problems. You’re right that war, violence, and terrorism don’t solve conflicts in a lasting way. However, by definition, negotiation is not possible with terrorists because they believe they’re in the right. The goals of Hezbollah and Shiite Muslims, and the goals of the Israelis and most of the rest of the world, are mutually exclusive. Fortunately, the balance of power seems to be with the Israelis, who have proven time and again they’re not to be messed with, and with the rest of the world, who have the ability to impose sanctions and censure on terrorists.
Curious Eyes, please simply read three articles below. Thanks.
QUOTE
Quick Report from the Israeli Peace Front
By Gila Svirsky, Tel Aviv
The peace movement in Israel has pulled out all stops to end this mad war. Lots of groups are active, and we had a big joint demonstration last night - at least 5,000 people (though the media reported 2,500). Marching through the streets of Tel Aviv with signs, “End the War”, “End the Occupation” felt like a relief after the roar of pro-war-talk on all the media.
Read more at
http://www.igf-online.org/index.php?id=429
UNQUOTE
QUOTE
IS THERE HELP FOR THE MIDDLE EAST?
By Dieter Duhm and Sabine Lichtenfels
July 2006
The people of the Middle East now need the protection of an alert public which breaks the international silence and has the courage to call the injustice taking place there by its name. When we criticize a derailed government and a derailed military we do not mean “the Israelis”. A new peace movement has been forming for a long time in Israel and Palestine. In spite of heavy sanctions a growing number of soldiers object to military service or the barbaric orders in the Occupied Territories. A few days ago there was a demonstration against the war in Tel Aviv. There was not a word about this in the news.
Read more at
http://www.igf-online.org/?id=436
UNQUOTE
Overcoming the Matrix of War in the Middle East
By Leila Dregger
http://www.igf-online.org/index.php?id=427
Curious Eyes,
I think Patricia’s view represents the view of pacifism. Pacifism (as the word suggests) a war is unjust and wrong because it includes violence, namely killing. A pacifist objects to killing in general and, especially to mass killing for political reasons, which is part of the wartime experience. Thus, a pacifist rejects war because there are no moral grounds which can justify resorting to war. The ancient stoic philosopher Seneca says that sparing one’s life when it can be easily taken away is among greatest virtues.
In your comment(s), you seem to imply that war can be morally justified and pacifism is “unrealistic”. Thomas Hobbes, another philosopher, will agree with you that pacifism lacks realism when it comes to War.
I want to point it out because I think there seems to be a different view on how crisis in middle-east should be conducted. I have a feeling that many of us are struggling to understand the message what patricia is trying to convey, as evidence that patricia has to defend her position repeatedly…
Patricia,
I think that despite your desire to learn about the Middle-East history, you haven’t achieved much. Just read what you just wrote: “… occupying Power in Palestine…”. What is Palestine to start with? Can you point it on a map? Start with naming countries with their correct names, and then we can have a more meaningful discussion if that’s what you want.
Thanks,
UN Observer #2674364873683.
an excerpt from the United Nations webpage
QUOTE
Israeli Occupation of the Palestinian Territory
In the course of the armed conflict that erupted in the Middle East in June 1967, the Israeli military occupied the remainder of Mandated Palestine: the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, which was under Jordanian control, and the Gaza Strip, which was under Egyptian administration. The lines of these areas were defined as such by the 1949 Armistice Agreements that were concluded between Israel and Jordan and Egypt respectively. The Israeli military also occupied the Egyptian Sinai Peninsula and the Syrian Golan Heights.
At the start of the occupation, Israel, the occupying Power, immediately began imposing scores of repressive measures against the Palestinian civilian population in the Occupied Palestinian Territory.
Read more at
http://www.palestine-un.org/info/occ.html
UNQUOTE
Here is one more excerpt for you, UNFIL Observer, once again from the United Nations webpage.
QUOTE
General Assembly
Tenth emergency special session
Agenda item 5 Illegal Israeli actions in Occupied East Jerusalem and the rest of the Occupied Palestinian Territory
Security Council
Sixty-first year
Identical letters dated 5 April 2006 from the Permanent Observer of Palestine to the United Nations addressed to the
Secretary-General and the President of the Security Council
In grave breach of international law, including international humanitarian law, Israel, the occupying Power, continues to use excessive and indiscriminate force and to launch military attacks against the Palestinian people in the Occupied Palestinian Territory. In the period of just two days since my last letter to you, the occupying forces have killed at least two more Palestinian civilians, including a 15-year-old boy, and wounded dozens of others, including a mother and her 6-month-old baby.
Read more at
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.n.....490054772c!OpenDocument
UNQUOTE
Oh, UNFIL Observer:
Here is the most recent more document from the United Nations webpage . . .
QUOTE
UNITED NATIONS INTERNATIONAL MEETING
IN SUPPORT OF ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN PEACE
United Nations Office at Vienna, 27 and 28 June 2006
FINAL DOCUMENT
2. The Meeting was convened by the Committee with a view to demonstrate the unswerving commitment of the world community to resolving this decades-old conflict, to help search for ways to stabilize the volatile situation in the area and resume political negotiations leading to a permanent two-State solution to the conflict, based on the 1967 borders, in accordance with the Road Map and Security Council resolutions 242, 338, 1397 and 1515. The participants reviewed the situation in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, discussed the state of the political process and challenges ahead, as well as international efforts in support of Israeli-Palestinian peace. The Meeting was also held at a time of a major political transition for both Israelis and Palestinians and amidst a worsening political, economic and humanitarian situation in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem.
Read more at
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.n.....a20055af02!OpenDocument
UNQUOTE
UNFIL, despite its portentous-sounding title, this was not a meeting of the General Assembly, nor the major players. Wanna know who was at this meeting?
Among others: Afghanistan, Cuba, Indonesia, Malaysia, Mali, Pakistan, Tunisia, and Turkey.
The observers at the meeting included Algeria, Egypt, IRAQ, Jordan, Kuwait, Libyan Arab Jamahiriya, Morocco, Qatar, Sri Lanka, Syrian Arab Republic, United Arab Emirates, and Yemen.
Not exactly an unbiased group, wouldn’t you agree? Not suprirsingly, it was mostly a lot of hot air exchanged. No practical solutions or pledges to rein in the Muslim extremist terrorists in their midst were offered. Typical.
Maybe I can help Patricia out? There isn’t any country called “Palestine” on the map. There’s Israel, West Bank, and Gaza Strip. In September 2005, Israel withdrew all its settlers and soldiers and dismantled its military facilities in the Gaza Strip and four northern West Bank settlements. Israel controls sea, air, and land access to the Gaza Strip for security reasons (i.e., suicide bombers). Furthermore, Israel is a democracy. It’s OK for some citizens to express opposition to their government and hold rallies protesting the war.
Curious Eyes got it right and said it all. There’s NO such thing as “Palestine” in our current world. That would be like referring to Iraq as Mesopotomia or Germany as Prussia. The situation itself is already complex enough so let’s not add more complexity by inventing names that do not exist.
And Patricia -like I said, what we have now is: Israel, Gaza, the West Bank, period. There’s no need for you to copy us litterature from the UN, we already know it. As for the statuses of the so-called “occupied territories” you seem to be so concerned about, please refer to my original post ((#11786) where I explained it all in a very simple maneer.
Pacifically yours,
UN Observer #7634376743.
Well, UN Observer, according to the United Nations, West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jersualem are the Occupied Palestinian Territory under the government of Israel.
Of course, the government of Israel has the right to the land, and so do the Palestinians to their land in the West Bank, Gaza Strip and East Jerusalem. Certainly, they all could learn to live in peace.
One thing though, take the time to learn about the root of the word “Palestine” and you’ll be surprised. The word “Palestine” has no meaning in Arabic! Each word in Arabic has some meaning in the Koran. There isn’t such a thing in the Koran. What people do not know is that the name “Palestine” was associated with Jews since 135 A.D.
In the recent years leading up to Israel’s independence in 1948, those who talked about “Palestinians” were, for the most case, referring to the region’s Jewish residents. Not the A..R..A..B..S. For example, they had the “Palestine Post” before it was changed over to “Jerusalem Post” newspaper. They had the “Palestine Symphony Orchestra” which was an all-Jewish symphony band. And then we have the “Palestine Brigade Regiment” which was an exclusive all Jewish volunteers for the British World War II Army. “Palestine” does not mean A..R..A..B…S or even Muslims for that matter.
And then we have the so-called leader of “Palestine” Yasser Arafat who is an EGYPTIAN! In short, the so-called Arab “Palestinians” is pure bogus. No history and no authenticity. Their sole purpose for existence is to destroy Israel.
So I come to this again. The name “Palestine” was not a recent designation. The name was invented in the year 135 A.D. when before that it was known as Judea, which was the southern kingdom of ancient Israel.
In short, these Arabs of “Palestine” have about as much historical roots to the ancient Philistines as Yasser Arafat has to the Eskimos!
Kind of put the whole different twist on this so-called “occupied” land of Palestine. It’s the historical root of the “Palestine” word that will bite them in their butt time after time again.
Well, McConnell, I have three articles below showing that Palestine with its spelling variations–Palestina, Philistia, and Philistines–exist since 3d millennium BC. Over the centuries, Palestinians take to Judaism, and then later Muslim and Christianity.
QUOTE
History Channel Resources
ENCYCLOPEDIA: PALESTINE,
As Egyptian power began to weaken after the 14th century BC, new invaders appeared: the Hebrews, a group of Semitic tribes from Mesopotamia, and the Philistines (after whom the country was later named), an Aegean people of Indo-European stock.
Read more at
http://www.historychannel.com/....._id=218498
UNQUOTE
QUOTE
Researches in Sinai
Ancient Egypt and Palestine
W. M. Flinders Petrie
Written by one of the most respected Egyptologists ever known, this remarkable work is at the same time original research in a previously neglected area of study, an account of an archeological survey and its methods, and a fascinating and illuminating discourse on the policies of the region of the time. No work or writer has addressed the issues of Egyptian ambition and the events of which took place in Palestine so cogently. Palestine, a fought-over land even at that time, inhabited by various tribal groups as it was, its history and its archeological remains are discussed “on the spot,” both in relation to the finds of the expeditions, known historical events, and accounts taken from the Bible, particularly the accounts of Exodus.
About the Author
W. M. Flinders Petrie, who excavated some 3000 graves in 1898-99, is regarded as the father of modern archaeology.
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/cup.....308221.HTM
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QUOTE
Peoples of the Old Testament World
by Alfred J. Hoerth (Editor), Gerald L. Mattingly (Editor), Edwin M. Yamauchi (Editor)
http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ.....p;n=283155
UNQUOTE
I said look at the history of the root word “Palestine”. Where did that word come from and who or what the word applied to?
Try looking here.
http://www.palestinefacts.org/.....origin.php
http://www.pitt.edu/~mmv/israel.htm#misnomer
Thanks to Patricia and McConnell for the history lessons. I truly do find them elucidative and informative. Clearly, a great many groups have laid claim to the area known as Palestine, and the land has been fought over for millennia. I despair of permanent, lasting peace ever being possible in the area because of its history, and the fact that religious extremism is at the root of its long-standing hostilities. Can we fast-forward to the present now? It’s indisputable that Israel has a legal, legitimate claim to “Palestine,” and the Big Guys (i.e., the Group of Eight) think so too. Regardless of who was there before and when, that’s reality.
Here’s a quote for you:
“Two weeks ago, foreign ministers from the Group of Eight industrialized countries and the European Union pointedly blamed Hezbollah for sparking the current conflict and called for the implementation of U.N. Security Council Resolution 1559 — which calls for the withdrawal of all foreign forces from Lebanon, the disarming of militias and the extension of Lebanese government control over all its territory.”
“There is an understanding today that our national goals seeking security in Lebanon do in fact complement completely the stated position of the international community,” Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Mark Regev said. … Regev said it helps that Israel is merely seeking to enforce agreed-on policies: “Israel is saying to the international community, ‘Implement your own resolutions.’ ”
“… There is broad international agreement, as expressed in the G-8 statement, that Hezbollah is responsible for the current crisis,” Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni told a small group of reporters in Jerusalem last weekend. “There is also broad international agreement on the nature of the threat — that it is a regional threat connected to an axis comprising Hezbollah, Syria, Iran and Hamas. There is agreement that our soldiers should be released unconditionally and U.N. Security Council resolution 1559 be implemented.”
“The rejectionist front has underestimated Israel’s determination and capacity for deterrence. It has proved there is no way back to the status quo in Lebanon, and it revealed Iran’s hegemonic aspirations to the entire world,” wrote former German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer, no slouch when he felt the need to criticize Israeli policies in the past.”
Source: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/.....K849B1.DTL
Calling for an immediate, unconditional cease-fire is a start, but it is not a permanent solution to the long-standing historical differences. The best solution entails a combination of diplomacy, military, and social services.
Some more interesting information regarding the so-called “plight” of the Palestinian Arabs and the “occupation” by Israel. In my opinion, sympathy for Palestinian Arabs, and the terrorists taking advantage of the situation, expressed on this blog are very much misplaced.
http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24170
http://www.science.co.il/Arab-.....Nationhood
I like this part, CE:
How bad is the situation in Lebanon? Here are more details as reported by the Jordan Times – not exactly a mouthpiece for the vast international Zionist conspiracy:
* Under the Lebanese labor law that governs foreigners, Palestinians are denied 74 forms of employment;
* Palestinians face tight exit and entry requirements;
* Palestinians in Lebanon are not allowed citizenship;
* Palestinians are confined to 12 camps with no medical, social or educational services from the government and are barred in some of those camps from building or even repairing homes.
Some in Lebanon have even recognized the “racist” nature of this anti-Palestinian campaign – policies far worse than anything ever contemplated by Israel.
Yet, more than half a million Syrians marched earlier this week in support of the Palestinian uprising in Israel, chastising the Jewish state for “Nazi and fascist” practices. Do those Syrian citizens have any idea of what kind of oppression Palestinian Arabs face next door in Lebanon? Do they have any idea that their government is directly supporting such policies? Are they aware that more Syrian troops are headed to Lebanon now to support the Beirut regime that has imposed such repressive measures?
While Israel has bent over backwards to accommodate the Palestinian Arabs – especially those victimized by the 1948 war – the Arab nations have only sought to exploit their misery. That exploitation continues today. It is overt. It is a matter of law. Yet the world sees it not.
http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24170
Lebanon is racist towards Palestinians? But, but…they’re A..R..A..B brothers!!
Pathetic, isn’t it? On the other hand, Palestinian Arabs perhaps do deserve our sympathy. No one wants them, least of all their so called Muslim “brothers.” Their A..R..A..B neighbors would much rather use them as expendable pawns in this deadly game of chicken they’re playing. The hypocrisy of it all is chilling when you consider the fact that the 56 members of the two Lebanese families, half of them children, died today because Hezbollah militants used them as human shields. Missiles were being fired from that exact location. So much for adhering to the peaceful dictates of the Koran.
Hmmm…let’s see now. Two years prior to the Six day war both Jordan and Lebanon instituted scores of terrorist raids. In 1965, 35 terrorist raids were conducted against Israel. In 1966, the number increased to 41. In just the first four months of 1967, 37 attacks were launched. And so, Israel used her right to defend herself when all of the Arab nations on all sides of Israel were attacking her. As a result, Israel won the Six Day War and took the Gaza strip, southern Lebanaon, Golan Height, the Sinai Peninsula and the West Bank.
What Patricia is supplying is that the UN was crying “No fair!” to a country, Israel, who was forced to defend herself and wrested control of the lands beyond her pre-Six Day war agreed to borders.
Time and time again each of the Arab/Muslim leaders in those countries around Israel have advocated for the complete destruction of Israel. Patricia, why haven’t you acknowledged this? Why haven’t acknowledged to the fact that Arab countries have never recognized Israel’s right to exist when the UN gave Israel that right in the first place?
As I previously mentioned, is Israel overreacting? Well, according to CNN, the deaths of 60 civilians (mostly women and children) in Qana and the bombing of a car carrying not Hezbollah, but Lebanese soldiers over the weekend makes Israel look like the bad guy. Despite the temporary ceasefire and expanding the Lebanese government to control the Hezbollah, Israel continues to attack as of today. It would be no surprise that the Arabic neighbors will use this tragedy to justify their stubborn mission to destroy Israel. So much for diplomacy.
Did I kill this discussion?! :)
Well, does anyone have to say about the fact that Israel is not backing down? We already know that their mission is to eliminate the Hezbollah, but will that harm Israel’s relations with other democratic nations? Probably not the U.S., but what about the others?
Cloak & Dagger
Ah, no, you ain’t kill this discussion!
It’s just that I thought I’d best let this issue cool for a few days. Lest, I give the wrong impression that I’m on Hizballah’s side when I’m totally on the side of humanitarianism.
I have two insightful articles from the Washington Post. If anyone cares to know, I’ll post them later this afternoon. Is it possible to email the Washington Post articles to this blog, and if so what is the email address?
Regardless of the fact that Israeli government does have the right to protect hir land, and that Hizballah provoked Irsaeli government, how Israeli reacted was totally rabid and unnecessary. The action of the Israeli government flattening the Southern Lebanon only helps all Arab nations to unify and they are rallying behind Hizballah. Also, al-Qaede and Hizballah were rivals, but this past few weeks they seemed to be supportive of one another. The government of Israeli and the United States have lost their friendship with Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia. Such sad consequent affair!
For the first time in my life, I can hardly wait for the 2008 Presidential election! (I wish President Bush could be impeached for all his violations of laws and constitution.)
I agree and understand that Israel has a right to guard their border and keep their citizens safe. What I don’t understand is why the destruction of building, bridges and other infrastructure (not to mention civilian deaths) necessary? I don’t think they will be paying the poor people to rebuild their lives after destroying it. What are they to do?
The Lebanese government should pay for the damages and assist in rebuilding what its people lost because the government allowed the Hizbollah to establish positions in a civillian area.
The Hezbollah is the civilian population. They don’t wear uniforms for the most part but taken up arms in civilian clothings instead. And mingle themselves among with the rest of the children and women making them the targets of Israeli return fire whenever they decide to lauch a rocket within a civilian population.
The Hezbollah is much to blame for this than the Israelis. Since it is their tactic to use them as shields and a source for political backlash by those not familiar with their tactics when it comes to civilian deaths.
Cowards they are. The Hezbollah.
“…how Israeli reacted was totally rabid and unnecessary.”
Considering what the Hezbollah has done by attacking Israel days, weeks and years before Israel finally decided enough was enough.
http://www.pbs.org/frontlinewo...../tl01.html
In your spirit of blaming the others, here is what said at the Frontline that you so generously shared. The birth of Hezbollah was the result of Christian militia massacring hundreds of Palestinian civilians.
QUOTE
1980-1983: Hezbollah Emerges
Then tragedy struck, radically altering both the U.S. role and the future of Hezbollah. On the evening of September 16, 1982, Christian Phalangists swept into the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps outside Beirut and slaughtered hundreds of Palestinian civilians. Eyewitness reports and subsequent Israeli inquiries established that Israeli commanders permitted the Christian militia to enter the camps. Sharon himself later testified that he had approved of the men going into the camps in order to detain PLO guerrillas. But he also insisted that he had no advance knowledge that a massacre of civilians would take place. Regardless of intent, the massacre caused a significant shift in the balance of power in Lebanon, one with important implications for the emergence of Hezbollah.
UNQUOTE
Like I said before repeatedly–war, terrorism, and violence are NOT the answer to the conflicts. I’m totally for humanitarian solution.
What you forgot to add was that Syria was siding with the Christian militia that helped murder hundreds of Palestinians. Leave it to you to ignore that all so important but very factual history.
“Syria was soon drawn into the fighting, in a development with important repercussions for the evolution of Hezbollah. (Syrian)President Hafez al-Assad, fearing that the war would spill across Syria’s borders, sent his army into Lebanon in May 1976. Al-Assad’s troops sided with Christian forces, crushing the Muslim militias.”
Well, you and I were talking about the different timeline.
I did not forget or ignore the part you emphasized that al-Assad sided with Christian forces, which happened specifically in 1975.
I was focusing on the birth of Hezbollah between 1980 and 1983, as a result of Christian militia–collaborating with Israeli commanders– massacring hundreds of Palestinian civilians in 2 refugee camps outside of Beirut.
However, the incident of using the Christian militia backfired because that was when the Hezbollah was born. Since then, the governments of Israeli and the United States are dealing with not only PLO but also Hezbollah, Hamas, Taliban and al-Qaeda.
The Frontline website that you so generously shared with us indicated that Hezbollah registered as a political party in the democratic election and won some seats. Once again, the government of Israeli and the United States are enraged by the result. Moreover, Hamas also registered as a political party in the democratic election and won some seats.
My point here is that violence begets violence; terrorism begets terrorism; terrorism begets war; and war begets terrorism. Violence is a breeding ground for more and more terrorists to form. *All* parties involved are guilty. Nothing worked!
It’s time to focus on peaceful solution for the sake of humanitarianism.
One of the first things you do in a war is cut off supply lines. Blowing up bridges and infrastructure does that. The Lebanese government has done next to nothing to stop the flow of weapons to Hezbollah from their suppliers. How do they get to Hezbollah bases in the south? Via air, roads, and sea, which is exactly what Israel has destroyed.
Israel is on the losing side of this moral debate, because of the way Hezbollah has played the game. Do you think Israel wants to kill civilians and make themselves look like the bad guy? Absolutely not. But it’s got to be done, because Hezbollah is hiding in the cities where the civilians are.
Israeli bases are located far, far away from the cities. Is Hezbollah attacking the bases? No. They’re attacking Haifa and the northern cities where there’s absolutely no military infrastructure.
Israel is trying their best to minimize civilian casualities while disabling their enemy, while Hezbollah is trying their hardest to kill as many Israelis as possible.
It’s war. People die. It sucks. It also sucks that right now, and probably in the history books, Israel will be seen as being aggressive and murderous, when it’s really Hezbollah that should be vilified.
I never refuted that Hezbollah are cowards and I completely agree that it’s not right for them hide among the civilians. It’s not right for people on either side to die. I just think people must sit down and talk about this and this includes bringing Hezbollah to the table. I understand people don’t want to be talking to terrorists. But think about this, the only reason a peace draft was written up in Sudan was because the Sudanese rebels were brought to the table. I acknowledge and understand the situations are different but I still believe a dialogue must be opened on both sides and Hezbollah must send back the soldiers, but key point: a dialogue must take place.
Yep, well said, Swetha.
Actually, it’s the mainstream media that’s helping the Hezbollah “win” in the media by appealing to people’s emotions, false details, and sensationalism over facts. It is interesting that most of the media has ignored the one single fact about Qana. Hundreds of rockets came out of Qana. Although Israel regrets the deaths of children and women (which btw conspicously absent of any young men or older teens in rubble and pictures in Qana and elsewhere only show children and women…rarely any older boys or men) they had to put a stop on the rockets firing. Blame the Hezbollah for not evacuating children and women out of the area when they decided to use Qana as one of the base for firing their rockets.
Notice any similarity with the Isreali-Hezbollah conflict with the Vietnam War?
Hezbollah and North Vietnamese (”NV”) fought virtually the same type of warefare. The aim of war for them is a psychological victory.
NV leader, Minh, knew he could not match the U.S. in military strategic. Instead, he used media. Same can be said about the Hellzboh…
It amazes me that… the developed world still have not learnt how Vietnam War to defeat this type of warefare.
what are the articles, if you do not mind to provide?
Thanks
Hi ahh?
Yep, here are two articles from the Washington Post, “What next, Lebanon?” by Shadid and “Stop the Band-Aid Treatment” by Carter, the ones I mentioned yesterday.
I’m focusing on the parts where the crisis could have been averted and we would not be in this Middle East mess.
Also, Shadid discussed the psychology of warfare. Considering the fact that Bush’s goal is to dismantle Hizballah, so far the government of Israeli hardly made a dent in wiping out the Hizballah. For that reason, the Arab Nations have acknowledged the survival of Hizballah, which means victory.
QUOTE
What Next, Lebanon?
Consternation Grips Nation as It Again Looks Up From War’s Ruins
By Anthony Shadid
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, July 30, 2006; A01
MUKHTARA, Lebanon, July 29 — From his hilltop citadel, Walid Jumblatt was a worried man Saturday. In Lebanon’s Byzantine, ever-shifting politics, the leader of the country’s Druze community has emerged as one of Hezbollah’s harshest critics. But a savvy veteran, he understood the arithmetic of the Middle East these days: In war, survival often means victory. And after 18 days of the conflict with Israel, he was bracing for what Hezbollah’s survival would mean for a country seized with volatile uncertainty.
Lebanon’s survival, he said, was now in the hands of Hezbollah and its leader, Hasan Nasrallah.
“We have to acknowledge that they have defeated the Israelis. It’s not a question of gaining one more village or losing one more village. They have defeated the Israelis,” he said. “But the question now is to whom Nasrallah will offer this victory.”
Read more at
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....01107.html
UNQUOTE
QUOTE
Stop the Band-Aid Treatment
We Need Policies for a Real, Lasting Middle East Peace
By Jimmy Carter
Tuesday, August 1, 2006; Page A17
The general parameters of a long-term, two-state agreement are well known. There will be no substantive and permanent peace for any peoples in this troubled region as long as Israel is violating key U.N. resolutions, official American policy and the international “road map” for peace by occupying Arab lands and oppressing the Palestinians. Except for mutually agreeable negotiated modifications, Israel’s official pre-1967 borders must be honored. As were all previous administrations since the founding of Israel, U.S. government leaders must be in the forefront of achieving this long-delayed goal.
Read more at
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....00923.html
Patricia, thanks.
Israel is doing the right thing by not backing down. Lebanon allowed Hezbollah to entrench into civillian areas in the last 5 or 6 years while knowing that Hezbollah will attack Israel. Backing down will only encourage terrorist to entrench in civillian areas. I am surprised that the Lebanese people are not angry at the Hezbollah for parking the rocket launcher truck next to an apartment complex. It is obvious that this truck will be in the sights of the Israeli air force.
Other nations need to realize that this is a different kind of war (guerilla tactics), it isnt the war that your great-grandpa fought in.
McConnell - I recommend you to read the latest article, “Why the Middle East Crisis Isn’t Really about Terrorism” in Time magazine and it describes the history and mission of the Hizbollah. The authors quoted this group as a “nasty crew” - and I would be careful not to claim that the media is sympathetic to this group.
This article mentioned on how Washington is struggling to form a “multinational force” to assist the Lebanese government in controlling the Hizbollah, but the other countries are resistant to Bush’s administration “with-us-or-against-us” policy which may have strained its diplomatic relations with these countries. Interesting.
side note….
you can read the article via: http://www.time.com/time/magaz.....05,00.html
I would like to share this tidbit of information from an interview Tim Russert of Meet the Press had with Thomas L. Friedman last Sunday morning. Friedman is an American-Jew journalist reporting from the Middle East as well as author of two books. Friedman was using India as an example, showing how it is possible for everyone in the Middle East to live in peace. Only if the officials learn to restraint, work for a peaceful solution, and hope for the best.
In a way, using India as an example, the possibilty for peoples in the Middle East to live in harmony, peace is not so farfetched after all.
QUOTE
MEET THE PRESS
MR. FRIEDMAN:
You know, you ever ask yourself, Tim, what’s the second largest Muslim country in the world? It’s India. It’s not Pakistan or Iran. What do we see in India? Just a couple of weeks ago, 350 Indians killed in what is widely suspected an attack by Muslim extremists in Mumbai in a train station. But the Indian reaction was incredibly restrained. Why is that? You know, why don’t Indian Muslims, you know, get their buzz this way? Could it be because the richest man in India is a Muslim software entrepreneur? Could it be because the president of India is a Muslim? Could it be because there’s an Indian Muslim woman on the Indian Supreme Court? Could it be because the leading female movie star in India is a Muslim woman? You know, when people get their dignity from building things rather than confronting other people, it’s amazing what politics flows from that. And I think that’s something the Arab world also needs to be reflecting on now.
Read more at
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14028605/page/6/
UNQUOTE
Pretty naive when it comes to “restraint.” Israel has a population of 6 million people (with nearly 80% being Jewish). Israel is surrounded by 4 Arabic countries - Jordan, Lebanon, Syria and Egypt. And behind those coutries backed by more Arabic countries. The size of Israel is quite small considering the counties you’re talking about Patricia.
Compare Israel with India: http://www.iris.org.il/sizemaps/india.htm
What’s more, India has a population of 1.1 billion people. Second behind China in terms of population in a country. India is able to restrain themselves better and yet they have only one Islamic country next to theirs….Pakistan.
Calling for Israel’s restraint is nearly laughable considering that the Islamic communities have been calling for the death of Israel and the Jewish people ever since Israel became a recognized country.
In all actuality, the onus is on the Arabic countries to show restraint and not call for the death of Israel and her people worldwide.
http://www.iris.org.il/sizemaps/arabwrld.htm
More size comparisons against various countries.
http://www.iris.org.il/sizemaps.htm
And no wonder the United States didn’t bomb radical Islamic groups in the United States after 9/11 where 3000+ died in a single minute. Sure a hell of a restraint that the U.S. did against those terrorist groups in the United States only because we’re quite big.
http://www.iris.org.il/sizemaps/usa.htm
Former President Carter is on the news again, CNN’s today’s newspaper. Carter announces that Bush is Israel’s worst ally in DC.
QUOTE
(snipped)
“In my opinion, maybe the worst ally Israel has had in Washington has been the George W. Bush administration, which hasn’t worked to bring a permanent peace to Israel,” Carter told the newspaper.
(snipped)
“In my opinion, we should make every effort now to withdraw American troops from Iraq,” Carter said. “I would say certainly begin a major withdrawal no later than the end of this year.”
Read more at
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/.....index.html
UNQUOTE
FYI
CNN anchor Wolf Blitzer interviewed Former President Carter this past Thursday.
QUOTE
Carter to Israel: Talk with Abbas
BLITZER: Should there have been legislation that makes English the official or national language of the U.S.?
CARTER: No, I don’t think so. You know, we have gotten along for more than 200 years without excluding other languages.
This is a country that is kind of a melting pot for languages around the world. And I don’t think there’s any need for it.
It’s just kind of one of those emotional issues that can turn one part of America against another. You know, we have survived OK without such language. And I think just to specifically say that it’s the only language that we will accept officially is the wrong approach.
BLITZER: Let’s talk a little bit about human rights in the West Bank, in Gaza, the Palestinian-Israeli problem, which is clearly very much on your agenda right now.
You say the elections were very free, very fair, the elections that saw Hamas win and become the leader of this new Palestinian government.
Listen to what … Ehud Olmert, the [Israeli] prime minister, said this week at the White House about this new Hamas-led Palestinian government:
“The rise of Hamas, a terrorist organization, which refuses to recognize Israel’s right to exist and regards terrorism as a legitimate tool, severely undermines the possibility of promoting a genuine peace process.”
Is the peace process effectively dead right now?
CARTER: Well, it depends on the judgment to be made by Israel and the Palestinians and with a heavy influence from Washington.
There is now a very clearly identified interlocutor or negotiator who represents the Palestinian community from two points of view. One is the president of the Palestine National Assembly, and that is Mahmoud Abbas. And the other point of view is a leader of the Palestinian Liberation Organization, the PLO. And that is the same person, Mahmoud Abbas.
And so he has been going around national capitals in Europe and other places during the last few months, strongly calling for direct talks between himself and representatives of the Israeli government. And there have been statements made even by Hamas leaders that they favor these direct talks between Abbas and representatives from Israel. So…
BLITZER: Mr. President, excuse me for interrupting. Olmert says that [Abbas] is powerless, he’s helpless. He thinks he’s a good man, but he … has no longer the authority to deliver anything.
CARTER: Well, I don’t want to get into a debate with the prime minister of Israel, whom I respect very much. But the fact is that there are only two positions that are distinct positions of authority.
One is the head of the Palestinian government, and the other is the head of the [Palestine] Liberation Organization. And the PLO is the only organization, as you know, that the government of Israel recognizes.
So Abbas can speak for the Palestinian community officially. He’s also been the one in the past, as you know, that was endorsed by the United States government under President Bush and by the Israeli government under the former prime minister of Israel, [Ariel] Sharon.
So if there is a desire to have peace talks, obviously, the Palestinians have a representative who can speak for the Palestinian people.
BLITZER: Israel is saying, the government of Israel, that if there are no negotiations, Israel will take unilateral action to disengage, as he calls it, from the West Bank, at least from parts of the West Bank.
I know you’ve written an article suggesting that would be an illegal land grab, words to that effect… . I asked Olmert about your article on “Late Edition” last Sunday. Here’s what he said about your comments. Listen to this:
“I have enormous respect for President Carter, who [comes] to visit me every now and then when he’s in Israel. I think some of his statements are different than the ones he writes when he’s far away.
“But I think that the basic point is this: Shall we negotiate with a terrorist government? I don’t know that there is one serious American representative that will advise Israel to sit with a terrorist government and negotiate with them.”
Do you want to comment on that?
CARTER: I think I just have, Wolf. I’m not advocating that Prime Minister Olmert negotiate with the Hamas organization. I’m advocating they negotiate with Mahmoud Abbas, who is the president of the Palestinian organization, the government. And also the head of the PLO.
I haven’t advocated that assistance of economic character be given through the Hamas government. What I’ve advocated is that humanitarian assistance only be given directly to the people in the West Bank and Gaza through the United Nations agencies, perhaps. Through the United Nations High Commissioner on Refugees, through UNICEF and other organizations — bypassing the Hamas government.
So there’s a difference between Hamas on the one hand, with whom Israel will not negotiate and which the United States cannot recognize, and the Palestinian people on the other. And their own chosen president and leader of the PLO, Mahmoud Abbas.
BLITZER: Mr. President, I want to leave it on a happy note. This week, you and your former vice president, Walter Mondale, became the longest living ex-president and ex-vice president in American history, beating [John] Adams and [Thomas] Jefferson. …
CARTER: Thank you, Wolf. All you have to do is live a long life and choose a healthy vice president.
more at
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITI.....index.html
UNQUOTE
Peace programs at the Carter Center
http://www.cartercenter.org/pe.....acepgm.htm
WELL’well, its been weeks now since the end of the lebanon scirmish by israel,i don’t see the news, reporting very much about it now,it’s all stopped, i wonder why that is,maybe its not front page news anymore,but believe me it will happen again in the future,everyone can guarantee that!,the israel’s are bad guys, and the arabs are the good guys.
Well i’m going to predict what will happen next, the arabs will carry on there jihad the same as before, untill they get that one person, who will unite all the arab countries together, and guess what, they will attack israel once again, because they will become all powerful, under this new imam who will rule
all the arabs,this will be in the very near future,at the moment, some arab countries, are a little bit pro western at the moment,but this will all change in the future, when the new iman steps forward to take control
of all the arab nations,they will all give there allegiance to him, this will be a bad time for us all i think,maybe russia,turkey,syria, iran, sudan, will join this confederation of arab states, its not far away, will? we come to Israels aide then?, i wonder maybe we will turn the other cheek at that time!,maybe we won’t want to get involved,when israel is surrounded by millions of soldiers in that time, who will come to her aide then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!PAUL