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	<title>Comments on: The Elephant in the Corner</title>
	<link>http://www.deafdc.com/blog/chris-kaftan/2007-05-16/the-elephant-in-the-corner/</link>
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	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 12:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: walk a mile in my shoes</title>
		<link>http://www.deafdc.com/blog/chris-kaftan/2007-05-16/the-elephant-in-the-corner/#comment-83929</link>
		<dc:creator>walk a mile in my shoes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 15:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.deafdc.com/blog/chris-kaftan/2007-05-16/the-elephant-in-the-corner/#comment-83929</guid>
		<description>Ah-men!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah-men!</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Heuer</title>
		<link>http://www.deafdc.com/blog/chris-kaftan/2007-05-16/the-elephant-in-the-corner/#comment-83913</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Heuer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 17:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.deafdc.com/blog/chris-kaftan/2007-05-16/the-elephant-in-the-corner/#comment-83913</guid>
		<description>Hi Kristi:

While what you said is true, I think schools can't establish effective Bi-Bi programs if their teachers are forced to think on a year-to-year basis.  Student progress needs to be tracked across several years, and the effort to utilze Bi-Bi methods needs to be consistent from year to year.  If one teacher is doing everything he/she can to implement Bi-Bi methods in his or her own classroom, but then next year's teacher isn't building on that, that has an impact on the overall effectiveness of the program (if indeed one can even get started due to the lack of concentrated effort).  Plus the gains a student makes within a single year and the gains that he makes over several years in an effective program are going to be two very different things.  So I think that teachers need to start in their own classrooms, yes, but schools need to get on the ball and start changing too, in order to support those teachers (and ultimately a successful program).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Kristi:</p>
<p>While what you said is true, I think schools can&#8217;t establish effective Bi-Bi programs if their teachers are forced to think on a year-to-year basis.  Student progress needs to be tracked across several years, and the effort to utilze Bi-Bi methods needs to be consistent from year to year.  If one teacher is doing everything he/she can to implement Bi-Bi methods in his or her own classroom, but then next year&#8217;s teacher isn&#8217;t building on that, that has an impact on the overall effectiveness of the program (if indeed one can even get started due to the lack of concentrated effort).  Plus the gains a student makes within a single year and the gains that he makes over several years in an effective program are going to be two very different things.  So I think that teachers need to start in their own classrooms, yes, but schools need to get on the ball and start changing too, in order to support those teachers (and ultimately a successful program).</p>
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		<title>By: Kristi</title>
		<link>http://www.deafdc.com/blog/chris-kaftan/2007-05-16/the-elephant-in-the-corner/#comment-83909</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 15:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.deafdc.com/blog/chris-kaftan/2007-05-16/the-elephant-in-the-corner/#comment-83909</guid>
		<description>Yep, can't just wait for the school to make changes, do your changes yourself inside your own classroom (or during tutoring). Keep progress tracking throughout the entire year (including reading inventory, so that if you can demonstrate that the approach is working (if it's working). Otherwise, it will just sound like plain propagnda to parents who are already confused with the competing messages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, can&#8217;t just wait for the school to make changes, do your changes yourself inside your own classroom (or during tutoring). Keep progress tracking throughout the entire year (including reading inventory, so that if you can demonstrate that the approach is working (if it&#8217;s working). Otherwise, it will just sound like plain propagnda to parents who are already confused with the competing messages.</p>
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		<title>By: Bobby White</title>
		<link>http://www.deafdc.com/blog/chris-kaftan/2007-05-16/the-elephant-in-the-corner/#comment-83886</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobby White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 02:02:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.deafdc.com/blog/chris-kaftan/2007-05-16/the-elephant-in-the-corner/#comment-83886</guid>
		<description>Clarification, it wasnt so much "announced" as voted in favor of by all of the experts in the field at that time.

The conference established oral education across the globe and as everyone has stated continues to have an impact on deaf education.

Again we have to realize that this conference was made up of experts in the field who deemed at that time 1880 that oral education was the best method and approach and they voted as such.  It was a collective effort.

It is 2007 more than 127 years have passed and most all hard evidence and research still supports oral approaches to education for the deaf.

As a community we have failed to counter these arguments that continue to support oral education and thus we are where we are today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clarification, it wasnt so much &#8220;announced&#8221; as voted in favor of by all of the experts in the field at that time.</p>
<p>The conference established oral education across the globe and as everyone has stated continues to have an impact on deaf education.</p>
<p>Again we have to realize that this conference was made up of experts in the field who deemed at that time 1880 that oral education was the best method and approach and they voted as such.  It was a collective effort.</p>
<p>It is 2007 more than 127 years have passed and most all hard evidence and research still supports oral approaches to education for the deaf.</p>
<p>As a community we have failed to counter these arguments that continue to support oral education and thus we are where we are today.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen Mayes</title>
		<link>http://www.deafdc.com/blog/chris-kaftan/2007-05-16/the-elephant-in-the-corner/#comment-83871</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Mayes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 16:21:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.deafdc.com/blog/chris-kaftan/2007-05-16/the-elephant-in-the-corner/#comment-83871</guid>
		<description>That is interesting, because a friend of mine and I discussed our concerns about literacy.  We noticed that ISD did not start emphasizing on reading and writing until in the middle school years (preschool and elementary school years at ISD are mostly focused on developing "social" language, with some "formal" education like fingerspelling.) We believe that the exposure to "formal" education of literacy should begin earlier, in the early childhood, when their brains are like sponges.  From reading the CAEBER books (level one and two, that the ISD's elementary school's principal handed over to me), development of social language is the key to laying the strong foundation of language which would lead to learning English and any other languages, AS 2nd language relatively easy.

ISD started sending the teachers to CAEBER for training... THIS YEAR!  There have been a lot of practices on implementing Bi Bi philosophy at ISD, but there have been no formal training until now.  Now CAEBER has been relocated to Gallaudet U.'s campus from New Mexico, I am hoping we'd see statistics soon ;o).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is interesting, because a friend of mine and I discussed our concerns about literacy.  We noticed that ISD did not start emphasizing on reading and writing until in the middle school years (preschool and elementary school years at ISD are mostly focused on developing &#8220;social&#8221; language, with some &#8220;formal&#8221; education like fingerspelling.) We believe that the exposure to &#8220;formal&#8221; education of literacy should begin earlier, in the early childhood, when their brains are like sponges.  From reading the CAEBER books (level one and two, that the ISD&#8217;s elementary school&#8217;s principal handed over to me), development of social language is the key to laying the strong foundation of language which would lead to learning English and any other languages, AS 2nd language relatively easy.</p>
<p>ISD started sending the teachers to CAEBER for training&#8230; THIS YEAR!  There have been a lot of practices on implementing Bi Bi philosophy at ISD, but there have been no formal training until now.  Now CAEBER has been relocated to Gallaudet U.&#8217;s campus from New Mexico, I am hoping we&#8217;d see statistics soon ;o).</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Heuer</title>
		<link>http://www.deafdc.com/blog/chris-kaftan/2007-05-16/the-elephant-in-the-corner/#comment-83870</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Heuer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 14:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.deafdc.com/blog/chris-kaftan/2007-05-16/the-elephant-in-the-corner/#comment-83870</guid>
		<description>(sorry I meant two problems *with prepositions*--they drop out entirely in sentences, or else they end up in the wrong place)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(sorry I meant two problems *with prepositions*&#8211;they drop out entirely in sentences, or else they end up in the wrong place)</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Heuer</title>
		<link>http://www.deafdc.com/blog/chris-kaftan/2007-05-16/the-elephant-in-the-corner/#comment-83869</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Heuer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 14:47:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.deafdc.com/blog/chris-kaftan/2007-05-16/the-elephant-in-the-corner/#comment-83869</guid>
		<description>Hi Joseph:

Following that vein of thought, you know what two problems I'd like to beat so far as WRITING is concerned in my classrooms?  The preposition problem.
I have no difficulties teaching my students what prepositions are or what they're for.  I don't even have that much of a problem teaching them where they go.  But I notice over time that prepositions seem to drop out of English sentences altogether, or else without constant attention on the part of the writer, they start showing up in the wrong place.  If you look at that list of classifiers Shane was talking about in his article "Deaf Ninja" you can see how the prepositions are built right into the classifier along with the nouns:
 (http://www.jal.cc.il.us/ipp/Classifiers/).  

I think that one place Bi-Bi writing programs should start (especially when a kid is very young), is by separating the components of classifiers and showing their equivalents in English parts of speech.  There ARE equivalents to an extent, and we should be mapping the path back and forth as early as possible.  Because that's an almost overwhelming job to accomplish in one semester once these same students are in college.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Joseph:</p>
<p>Following that vein of thought, you know what two problems I&#8217;d like to beat so far as WRITING is concerned in my classrooms?  The preposition problem.<br />
I have no difficulties teaching my students what prepositions are or what they&#8217;re for.  I don&#8217;t even have that much of a problem teaching them where they go.  But I notice over time that prepositions seem to drop out of English sentences altogether, or else without constant attention on the part of the writer, they start showing up in the wrong place.  If you look at that list of classifiers Shane was talking about in his article &#8220;Deaf Ninja&#8221; you can see how the prepositions are built right into the classifier along with the nouns:<br />
 (http://www.jal.cc.il.us/ipp/Classifiers/).  </p>
<p>I think that one place Bi-Bi writing programs should start (especially when a kid is very young), is by separating the components of classifiers and showing their equivalents in English parts of speech.  There ARE equivalents to an extent, and we should be mapping the path back and forth as early as possible.  Because that&#8217;s an almost overwhelming job to accomplish in one semester once these same students are in college.</p>
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		<title>By: Joseph Pietro Riolo</title>
		<link>http://www.deafdc.com/blog/chris-kaftan/2007-05-16/the-elephant-in-the-corner/#comment-83868</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph Pietro Riolo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 14:03:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.deafdc.com/blog/chris-kaftan/2007-05-16/the-elephant-in-the-corner/#comment-83868</guid>
		<description>Good point about these v/blogs.  (I learned a new word from you, "oracy", by the way. :-)  Strange to say, I made up the word "videracy" way back on February 8, 2007 when I wrote my comment in response to the vlog at http://mpclegg.blogspot.com/2007/02/vlog-literacy.html on the subject of including vlog in the scope of literacy.  My comment did not show up even after few attempts probably because it was not approved by the vlogger.  Now that I learned "oracy" from you, I thought that "videoracy" sounds better than "videracy" to describe the skills that kids have in understanding and expressing ASL stories through video.  I see that I digress.)

From my perspective, the topics that they covered are really issues about the education, not about the education itself.  I want to be clear that I am not against the discussions on the issues surrounding the education for the deaf and hard-of-hearing kids.  It is important to know what are the issues but they don't produce practical benefits for the kids and their parents.  For example, the deaf school that my children are attending is not a full-fledged bi-bi school but it uses the bilingual approach in many areas.  My children can't afford to wait for the issues to be solved before they can have the best education.

One example of emphasizing on education is reading.  The importance of reading is noticeably absent from DeafRead even though the name includes the word "read".  One teacher at my children's deaf school said that reading is absolutely not an option for the deaf kids.  Every day they do not read, they lag a bit behind.  It may not be a big deal when we look at one day.  But, it makes a big deal when we look at 10 years that have 3,652 days (or 3,653 days :-).  Just imagine how powerful the influence will be on the deaf and hard-of-hearing kids when more vloggers get involved in reading.

Issues about education are fine but education itself is much more important.

Joseph Pietro Riolo
josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com

Public domain notice: I put all of my expressions in this post in the public domain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point about these v/blogs.  (I learned a new word from you, &#8220;oracy&#8221;, by the way. :-)  Strange to say, I made up the word &#8220;videracy&#8221; way back on February 8, 2007 when I wrote my comment in response to the vlog at <a href="http://mpclegg.blogspot.com/2007/02/vlog-literacy.html" rel="nofollow">http://mpclegg.blogspot.com/20.....eracy.html</a> on the subject of including vlog in the scope of literacy.  My comment did not show up even after few attempts probably because it was not approved by the vlogger.  Now that I learned &#8220;oracy&#8221; from you, I thought that &#8220;videoracy&#8221; sounds better than &#8220;videracy&#8221; to describe the skills that kids have in understanding and expressing ASL stories through video.  I see that I digress.)</p>
<p>From my perspective, the topics that they covered are really issues about the education, not about the education itself.  I want to be clear that I am not against the discussions on the issues surrounding the education for the deaf and hard-of-hearing kids.  It is important to know what are the issues but they don&#8217;t produce practical benefits for the kids and their parents.  For example, the deaf school that my children are attending is not a full-fledged bi-bi school but it uses the bilingual approach in many areas.  My children can&#8217;t afford to wait for the issues to be solved before they can have the best education.</p>
<p>One example of emphasizing on education is reading.  The importance of reading is noticeably absent from DeafRead even though the name includes the word &#8220;read&#8221;.  One teacher at my children&#8217;s deaf school said that reading is absolutely not an option for the deaf kids.  Every day they do not read, they lag a bit behind.  It may not be a big deal when we look at one day.  But, it makes a big deal when we look at 10 years that have 3,652 days (or 3,653 days :-).  Just imagine how powerful the influence will be on the deaf and hard-of-hearing kids when more vloggers get involved in reading.</p>
<p>Issues about education are fine but education itself is much more important.</p>
<p>Joseph Pietro Riolo<br />
<a href="mailto:josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com">josephpietrojeungriolo@gmail.com</a></p>
<p>Public domain notice: I put all of my expressions in this post in the public domain.</p>
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		<title>By: Karen Mayes</title>
		<link>http://www.deafdc.com/blog/chris-kaftan/2007-05-16/the-elephant-in-the-corner/#comment-83867</link>
		<dc:creator>Karen Mayes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 12:23:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.deafdc.com/blog/chris-kaftan/2007-05-16/the-elephant-in-the-corner/#comment-83867</guid>
		<description>Joseph...may I point out that there have been a few vloggers who discussed education, like Barb DiGi and I did discuss it on my site (www.kmayes.wordpress.com), as well as a few others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joseph&#8230;may I point out that there have been a few vloggers who discussed education, like Barb DiGi and I did discuss it on my site (www.kmayes.wordpress.com), as well as a few others.</p>
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		<title>By: A Deaf Pundit</title>
		<link>http://www.deafdc.com/blog/chris-kaftan/2007-05-16/the-elephant-in-the-corner/#comment-83865</link>
		<dc:creator>A Deaf Pundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 May 2007 22:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.deafdc.com/blog/chris-kaftan/2007-05-16/the-elephant-in-the-corner/#comment-83865</guid>
		<description>Hmm. I can see why you're annoyed with the redundancy of DeafRead discussing ASL, or flaunting their ASL skills to no end. But I still don't see the correlation between low expectations and that. 

People will discuss what they're interested in, and I think most of us aren't passionately interested in education, nor  sure about how to emphasize the importance of education is to teenagers and still attract viewers' interest in general.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm. I can see why you&#8217;re annoyed with the redundancy of DeafRead discussing ASL, or flaunting their ASL skills to no end. But I still don&#8217;t see the correlation between low expectations and that. </p>
<p>People will discuss what they&#8217;re interested in, and I think most of us aren&#8217;t passionately interested in education, nor  sure about how to emphasize the importance of education is to teenagers and still attract viewers&#8217; interest in general.</p>
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