After getting into an argument last week with someone who believes that ASL-using, culturally Deaf people are “insular,” I took the time to look the word up. I had always assumed it just meant “insulated” or “closed.” But when you know you’ll probably be having the same argument again in the near future, it’s a good idea to prepare for it with precise definitions. So here are a few that I found for “insular” using a Google search:
• relating to or characteristic of or situated on an island; “insular territories”; “Hawaii’s insular culture”
• suggestive of the isolated life of an island; “an exceedingly insular man; so deeply private as to seem inaccessible to the scrutiny of a novelist”- Leonard Michaels
• narrowly restricted in outlook or scope; “little sympathy with parochial mentality”; “insular attitudes toward foreigners”
• either of an island, or suggestive of the isolated condition of an island
Strange, isn’t it, how the word “island” is mentioned again and again. So for the hell of it I looked this up as well, since it seems so central to the concept of “insular.” This is one of the definitions I found:
• a body of land surrounded by water on all sides
Now taken together these meanings strike me as somewhat incompatible. Do you notice how none of the definitions for “insular” seem to mention what people who live on islands are isolated from? Or what those islanders have narrowly restricted their collective outlook or scope to exclude? Certainly the definition of “island” alone doesn’t tell us these things. It seems foolish to assume that islanders have isolated themselves from the knowledge that they’re surrounded on all sides by water. If I’m wrong on this, the following experiment should resolve the situation: We’ll simply ask a dozen fishermen randomly selected from a dozen islands if they indeed strive to exclude the existence of water from their outlook on life. Their answers should tell us what we need to know.
I also have a somewhat hard time figuring out why life on an island—solely by virtue of the fact that it exists on an island—is “isolated.” Especially when you consider that human life doesn’t really reproduce itself very well when a human being is alone. Thus if there’s a human society on an island at all, isn’t its very existence direct evidence of the fact that at least some of these islanders got together long enough to dispel their isolation?
Not that any of these things matter, of course. It’s a good bet that the term “insular” has less to do with people who live on islands and more to do with people who came to these islands long ago in huge ships armed with cannon and guns. In fact, before they showed up, based on the definitions above there probably wasn’t an islander in the ocean who believed that he had an insularity problem. It’s also a good bet that he only became convinced he had one after the captain of one of these ships pointed a cannon at him and told him that he had one.
But I’m not arguing here that “insularity” is actually a term that denotes the practice of using islanders for target practice. Mainlanders have been blowing each other apart for as long as anybody can remember, as well. Thus “insular” also probably has less to do with who lives on the mainland than it does with which mainlanders have more cannon and guns at a given time. In fact, simply being a mainlander has nothing whatsoever to do with anything. History is replete with situations in which so-called “islanders” happened to develop more cannon and guns (or some equivalent) faster than the mainland. Guess who was then attacked?
If you want a better definition for “insular,” this is what I think it should be:
• relating to or characteristic of any person or group with less power that strives to protect himself/itself from a person or group with more power
This definition simplifies things a bit. When we focus on what is characteristic of power and protection instead of upon what is characteristic of an island (and by extension isolation), we get at the heart of why insularity arises. We may also realize that at any given moment, anyone can have more power than we do. Thus all of us to an extent are insular. We have no choice but to be so.
You certainly exercise power in your own home, for example. You can invite into and expel from it anyone you wish (barring your own legal dependents, though at times you may wish you could expel them, too). You also expect protection from it. The fact that we can lock our front door is the sole reason many of us can sleep at night.
Now suppose you come home to find an uninvited stranger sitting in your favorite chair drinking your beer and watching a baseball game on your television set. You ask him to leave but he refuses, so you start to dial 911.
Imagine how absurd it would sound if he then accused you of being “insular.”
What’s confusing is that in a sense he’d be right. After all, you are closed to the idea of uninvited strangers being in your home, right? That whole concept is completely outside the scope of your outlook. And not only that; the more this particular stranger argues that he has a right to be in your home, the more likely it will become that you’ll make its interior inaccessible to his scrutiny. In fact the tiny group of people (think: island) permitted to enter your home without a formal invitation is probably limited to your immediate family and closest circle of friends, right?
Deaf people are insular because everyone on this planet is insular. When we’re guarding ourselves, our loved ones, our houses, or our culture, insularity is a necessity. Nothing in this world can survive without it, because whatever the outside world isn’t kept at bay from, it usually assimilates. That’s why we guard against it—or at least certain portions of it—in the first place. It’s why we don’t let our children stay overnight in the homes of people we don’t know. It’s why we have locks on our front doors, our car doors, our desks, and our safety deposit boxes. It’s why we have borders lined with chain link fences and armies to defend them.
So the next time Deaf people are accused of being insular, maybe we should take a moment to question just how much of the so-called “real world” we voluntarily isolate ourselves from. And if we’re arrogant enough to believe that we don’t, that we’re truly open to everything and everyone, maybe we should test this belief by propping open our front door and leaving it that way for six weeks straight. We are, after all, surrounded on all sides by people who are only too willing to take from us everything that we own. Give it enough time, and sooner or later one of them will show up.
Once that happens, a little bit of insularity will probably start looking pretty good.
© Copyrighted material. This article cannot be copied, reproduced or redistributed without the express written consent of the author. As with every blog on this website, this blog does not reflect the opinion of DeafDC.com.
112 Comments
Sorry, the comment form is closed at this time.


Optimistic and cheerful today about the hearing, aren’t we Chris? :P
Let’s look at it in another way. There is a difference between protecting yourself from complete, utter strangers who you have a hinky feeling about, and cautiously opening up a dialogue with people who are curious about us and our culture.
Because the truth is, we aren’t very welcoming to people who are curious about us. I am sure we all can share stories about a deaf person we know, rudely rebuffing a genuinely curious hearing person, because the deaf person has the mentality of, “Hey, a hearing person ticked me off, (doesn’t matter how recent or how long ago it was) so I’m gonna treat them how they treated me!”
Heck, we’re not even welcoming to each other sometimes, because we’re Deaf of Deaf, or Deaf of Hearing, or Hard of Hearing, or because we use ASL, PSE, SEE, Cochlear Implants.
No? We’re all very welcoming? Then why do we constantly debate the Crab theory, and scream it at someone who criticizes us, legitimately or not, be damned?
We also have a pretty bad cultural lag. We’re just discovering ideas, especially the concept of open-source, that the hearing already jumped on 5-10 years ago.
So yeah, I would say we’re insular. I think for us to move on as a culture, we have to take a look at everything within it, and that includes our bad aspects. Or else, we’ll never make progress.
Deaf Pundit,
I’m not sure what “open-source” has to do with the deaf community. Can you elaborate on that?
Sorry, I should’ve elaborated on that. I meant open-sourcing on ideas in general.
It’s only until very recently with the vlogs/blogs that we’ve begun open-sourcing our information.
But even then, we still quieten down when a hearie who doesn’t know sign comes along and makes a comment. We still don’t accept what they say, but accept it when a deaf person turns around and says the exact same thing.
But DP, for ever Deaf person out there who rejects hearing people (or “deaf” people, whatever), there’s a dark-skinned Black person who rejects both White people and lighter-skinned black people. There’s a “Womyn” who rejects men and all things “Man,” and all women who get along with men. There’s a gay person who… you see what I mean?
And we aren’t just insular from complete strangers. If you came home to find the Gas Meter Guy or the Termite Trap Guy or the Pizza Delivery Guy sitting in your favorite chair drinking your beer you’d be upset, no? But you’ve seen all of these people before!
I think it’s simply a question of boundaries. It’s just that boundaries can easily become walls, which isn’t good. But neither is having no boundaries whatsoever.
(Also, re: Shane’s comment, I too would like to see some expansion on “open source”..?)
That’s true, Chris, about boundaries but I don’t see a problem of us not having any boundaries when it comes to the hearing - not when it comes to deaf adults anyway. I do see a problem of low expectations for ourselves though, and that is different than having no boundaries.
I never said we were completely insular. That would be silly, and when I talk about being insular, I’m not talking in a literal sense when it comes to strangers.
But we are insular when it comes to ideas. We insist on re-inventing the wheel ourselves, because many of us think there’s no way in hell that a hearing person’s idea could be any good for us and be modified for our purposes. That’s where open-sourcing comes in. We take an idea, modify and build upon it and share it with others.
Deaf Pundit said: But we are insular when it comes to ideas. We insist on re-inventing the wheel ourselves, because many of us think there’s no way in hell that a hearing person’s idea could be any good for us and be modified for our purposes.
AMEN. And this is very self-destructive and imposes limits that would otherwise not be there.
I’d define insular, as related to the deaf community, as being disconnected from reality. More specifically, disconnected from how things work in the world. Perhaps willfully ignorant, perhaps not. Day in and day out I encounter such mind boggling interactions with deaf people in my job, and I have to scratch my head and wonder why their collective head is stuck in the sand. When I hear deaf people wonder why they get such shoddy treatment and disrespect from the hearing community, I have to chuckle because the answer is abundantly clear (at least in the business world): look in the mirror at how you, the deafie, treat the hearie (and deafies like me that you don’t know are deaf) and insist that special exceptions to the rules be made or else we are audists.
Perhaps people simply look for a reason to single out a culture they don’t understand, Deaf or not. For example, take the child who is bi-cultural (let’s say Mexican and Caucasian). Will that child identify with both cultures? Unlikely. The child will most likely identify more strongly with one culture. I know of a young lady who is both of these and identifies herself as Mexican. She has been known to say, “I hate white people, they…” Sometimes this is in a joking manner and sometimes not. As for the Deaf culture being insular, as you’ve said many people in today’s society are that way, but I think they notice it more about Deaf because people don’t truly understand how Deaf have been treated in the past and how things are today (CI’s “turning” Deaf into ‘hearing’ ideology). But this is just an observation.
Some people, including you, Chris, are conflating insularity with isolationism. One has nothing to do with the other.
I can understand it when people say that Deaf people are insular, with struggles over issues involving Deaf identity, Culture, ASL/SEE, etc., that are not part of the main culture’s concerns. I can also understand it when people say that Gallaudet itself is insular, with all its petty academic struggles and bickering.
When people say, “insular,” I think more along the lines of being part of a small town mentality. To me, that’s a blend of having fixed customs, thoughts, and practices, that are not part of a larger culture. An island within a larger continent is a very good description of Deaf Culture, I think.
But that can be said of any minority culture.
But you seem to have an inordinate fixation on power and the lack thereof, which appears common to a lot of academics. It’s a boring cliche, especially applied to minority cultures. Get over it and find a new trope to focus on for the Deaf.
Hello SIM:
“…that are not part of the main culture’s concerns.”
I agree with you that *Deaf* identity issues aren’t a part of the mainstream culture’s concerns (for the most part). But identity and culture and language are all things that mainstream cultures (and minority cultures) have been fighting wars over with each other for centuries. So I think that they DO concern themselves with these issues in general. And in that sense I think that English-speaking Americans who don’t want Los Angeles high schools in largely Latino neighborhoods to become bilingual are just as insular as Deaf people are supposed to be, given that we have a Spanish-speaking country just south of us that we’re going to have to learn how to deal with in this age of “globalization.” Not to mention a whole continent just south of them that utilizes Spanish, too.
“English-speaking Americans who don’t want Los Angeles high schools in largely Latino neighborhoods to become bilingual are just as insular as Deaf people are supposed to be…”
A continent, when you think about it, is just a large island.
The question then becomes how you deal with an apparent island that is growing bigger and bigger and may pose a threat to your way of life? Assimilate, expel, maintain the status quo, or something else altogether?
And, please, don’t use the trope about power because that’s a false dichotomy. There are very rare instances in the world when one is able to completely impose his will on another so that the first obliterates the second. It is much more likely that there will be exchanges, whether of the power variety, or cultural, or academic, or whatever. Everybody is exchanging something. You and I are exchanging information and perspectives, but we don’t have an upper hand on the other so no power questions involved.
But you’re right, in the long run, not everything is immune from challenges and convergences caused by different cultures.
I agree with all of that. As a matter of fact I was just thinking that same thing… in the age of globalization EVERYTHING is an island.
I think there will be exchanges, yes. And I think there will also be attempts to dominate and destroy, which will be met by resistance or submission.
But you’re right too… free exchange is a big, and hopefully growing part of it.
Okay, I’m the big bad hearie in this crowd for the moment I guess. So here’s what I think. First, insular means simply isolated. The island reference is to the fact the islands are isolated from the mainland. It doesn’t mean they purposely cut off anybody or anything like that. The same with insular as it is applied to Deaf folks. It means you keep to yourselves in a group of like people. It doesn’t attempt to ascertain why or how. And I agree it is a fact. Deaf people are insular, and so are many other groups. Nobody said it had to be a derogatory remark. Perhaps the person who said it, intended to be, but it isn’t that way by default. It strictly denotes some sort of separation.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being insular either, it helps maintain your culture and group identity. The problems start when you become isolationist. That’s a whole different thing. And some Deaf people ARE isolationists (some NOT ALL). They very much believe they and all Deaf people should keep as far away from all non-Deaf as possible, thereby reducing the problems they have to deal with. If you have ever read my posts you know I am against this, I believe you deal with problems or they just get worse.
My two hearie pennies on insular.
Dennis
You are correct about confusing insularity with isolationism. One does not mean the other.
Remember though that in the definitions I found for “insular,” insularity and isolationism DO seem to be interchanged quite a bit. Which is something I disagree with as well.
They share a common root, that’s all. That aspects of their definition seem to be in common doesn’t make them all mean the same thing or interchangeable (which doesn’t stop people from doing so ;-)
Someone who is isolated isn’t necessarily insular and vice versa. I’m isolated — I can count on my hands the number of deaf people I know/have met in real life (as opposed to on the internet). So, I am quite isolated. However (I hope) I’m not insular; I learn as much as I can from everyone I meet, whether online or face to face…
Dennis, I’m hearing too.
You’re not the big bad hearie, Dennis. Hopefully none of this comes across as anti-hearing. It’s not meant that way. I mean it all in the sense that people struggle to hold onto their identies and protect what they love in a world where everything around us is increasingly blurring and merging together.
I didn’t take it that way, I just like being melodramatic! :)
When is Adam Stone coming back? Anyone know? I’m tired of reading this drivel.
Y’know… I’ve always complained that many deafies seem to isolate themselves from the world around them. I’ve never used the words “insular” or “isolationism,” though.
At the risk of being flamed, I see this “isolationism” most within the Gallaudet community. Yes, Gallaudet is a “mecca.” It’s a place where people can go simply to “fall into” the World Of The Deaf — the World Where (almost) Everyone Signs. THE WORLD THAT IS DEAF.
But y’know what? That’s always bothered me, even since I was a kid. Yes, I was mainstreamed. Yes, I went to colleges other than Gally. So maybe there’s some bias here. But, the fact remains simple: the world around us IS hearing. And yet, I see so many friends, acquaintances, and others I don’t know well simply be content to congregate only with other deafies (and hearies who sign). There are those who say they would only date/marry another deaf person (or a CODA/interpreter). And then there are the news stories about deaf parents wanting deaf children.
I’ve often wondered if this whole issue of identity is being taken too far. Yes, I’m deaf, but I don’t use that as my first label — I’m Hilary–everything else is secondary. And I look around and I see people acting /saying “DEAF ME.” Not “ME DEAF.”
And I wonder.
Is it good for people who are deaf to insulate themselves within the deaf community only? Is it good to have the majority of life experiences be with only other deaf/signing peers, colleagues, family, and acquaintances?
I like my balance. I like having my hearing friends. I like my deaf friends. Sure, if I’ve gone for a long time without much interaction with other deaf people, then I’ll crave some “deaf time.” But I certainly don’t need, or want, that deaf time 24/7.
Hmmm.
I’ll be honest here: in real life, all of my friends are either deaf or hearing who sign. But that’s because I can’t speak or lipread well. On-line, I have several blog friends who are hearing and don’t know sign, which makes sense when you think about it. If we have to struggle to communicate with someone, we tend not to become friends, because it’s far too much effort.
But I do think it’s bad for us to not be open-minded about meeting those who are different than us. We’ve pretty insular when you consider the idea/cultural lag we have, and that’s happening for a variety of reasons but I think one reason is because our deaf leaders are encouraging us to be angry at hearing people indiscriminately.
Not all hearing people are bad. In fact, most of them don’t know what the system’s done to us. So why hurl our wrath at people who generally are clueless about what’s really going on? That’s the problem I have with Chris’ blog here.
Anger is a powerful motivator, definitely, but we have to learn how to use it in a positive way and learn the hearing’s rules of the game. Then we’ll beat them at their own rules.
I like the Socratic method for that. Socrates got arrested and was found guilty for inciting riots because he merely questioned people and trapped them in their own logic. The powers that be did not like that because it made people THINK about what was really going on.
“So why hurl our wrath at people who generally are clueless about what’s really going on? That’s the problem I have with Chris’ blog here.”
Where do you get that from? Where’s the “wrath?” I live my life pretty much the same as you live yours. Half of my friends are deaf, the other half hearing, but of the hearing half, most sign. If they don’t we usually write back and forth or we talk online.
Not any and all statements on why Deaf people might be resistant to hearing people are “anti-hearing” in and of themselves. I’m about to reply to Ricky Taylor next… I hope you’ll look at that.
Where do I get the impression from? From your blog entries, Chris.
You’re constantly writing about how hearing people have dominated us and how angry we should be about it.
DP, a question for you. When you wrote about that doctor in your blog (at least I’m pretty sure that was you), the one who violated your civil rights, how’d you feel about it?
Yeah, that was me. I was and still am ticked off about it. But I’m targeting my anger at the doctor and Michigan Dept. of Civil Rights. I’m not angry at ALL hearing people, because I think they could be very valuable allies in our fight for equality.
With my blog, I’m writing about it, but at the same time, I’m very mindful of the fact that words are powerful. Very powerful. I don’t want to stir up deaf people into emotional or physical violence, but I do try to encourage them to stand up for their rights in a logical and factual manner, and for the random hearing person who might stumble across my blog, to stop and think about what’s happening.
I’m also putting my talk into action, (and this isn’t directly at you, Chris) which seems to be somewhat lacking in the deaf community. It’s all grand to talk about what’s happening, but what’s the use of talking about it if people won’t stand up for their rights appropriately?
DP, when I kiss my hearing wife goodnight, I don’t say “Dream sweet, honey, I hate your guts.” And when I went to my hearing neighbors’ barbecue last Sunday, I didn’t tilt my Coke can at them and say “May you all burn in hell.” Okay? Whatever else you may believe, all of that is true. And so long as we’re talking about insularity, here, I honestly do think that *anger* is what keeps us insular. But it’s not just the anger we actually feel. Every time someone sends a strong message that we’re maybe not ready for, we use what we perceive as his “anger” (what, there’s NO possibility that he feels some other way?) as our excuse to not hear it.
Sooner or later that’s what some doctor is going to do to you, too… use what you think and feel against you. That way it’s no longer about what he actually did, it’s about YOU.
Maybe I’m wrong–who the hell am I, you know? But I really do think that if you ever wrote what you believe is an “appropriate” message that ALL deaf people can use to stand up for their rights, and posted that message on your blog, at least a few readers would accuse you of being angry at all hearing people. And such accusations would only increase each and every time your civil rights were violated.
Can you guarantee that wouldn’t happen?
Well, I would hope you don’t say that to your wife! :)
My civil rights’ been violated several times - as an adult that is. As a child, it was violated many, many times, and yeah, every single time they try to make it about me. People are like, ‘You’re angry!’ And my response is, ‘I’m angry because you violated my civil rights. But me being angry doesn’t violate your rights. I have the right to be angry. I’m not being rude or abusive to you. I am just asserting my rights.’
I don’t care if they’re angry. Ain’t my problem! If they think I’m inferior, and that doctor did - he told me I seemed rather intelligent - I’m not going to think I’m inferior because of him. I’m just going to think he’s an ass.
I guess I just don’t understand what you’re trying to accomplish with this kind of blog entries. To me, it doesn’t come across as encouraging us to assert our rights.
It comes across as you trying to be provocative and incite something. What exactly I don’t know. I would say that I’m not alone in thinking this, judging by others’ responses on here.
As for my blog: I don’t think readers of my blog would think I’m angry at ALL hearing people. I’ve had random hearing people who were googling for something and stumbled across my blog by that way, send me an email privately and the gist of their comments are, “Wow. Your blog made me think, and I’m discovering a totally new world! Keep it up!”
And what’s even more ironic is that thus far, I’m getting more support from the hearing on the Equal Communication Access campaign than I am getting from the deaf. I’m not sure what to make of that…
“It comes across as you trying to be provocative and incite something. What exactly I don’t know. I would say that I’m not alone in thinking this, judging by others’ responses on here.”
And I don’t know what to tell you except congratulations that your blog is generating the kinds of comments that you’ve been getting.
“Is it good for people who are deaf to insulate themselves within the deaf community only? Is it good to have the majority of life experiences be with only other deaf/signing peers, colleagues, family, and acquaintances?”
I would say no. I think that if you make that choice, you limit yourself and your life experiences. If you do not challenge yourself, you stagnate.
But then again, a lot of Deaf folks don’t have the capability of being able to communicate easily with hearing people so I can understand the frustration and the willingness to both lash out and build up walls against the outside world.
I disagree. It is a fallacy that hearing people are the ONLY ones who can “challenge” deaf people and make sure they don’t “stagnate.”
If you meet intelligent, well-educated Deaf people (and they do exist), a Deaf person will be challenged and will not stagnate.
A Deaf person does not need to be around hearing people in order to have “quality life”. You are a victim of “HEARING IS ALWAYS BETTER” thinking.
This has to do with quality/full communication access, and it is a fact that the hearing society is unable/unwilling to provide it. If you want to hang with them, fine. But don’t make the mistake of thinking that they will make your life challenging, exciting, etc etc etc. Hearing people are not the automatic answer to all the ills of Deaf people’s lives.
You misconstrue my comments; I said that the challenges a Deaf person has to face in today’s world is both external and internal. But the only way a Deaf person will succeed is by rising to the challenge and many of us do, with varying degrees of success.
“Hearing people are not the automatic answer to all the ills of Deaf people’s lives.”
I agree with that. But then again, a lot of Deaf folks compare and contrast ourselves to hearing folks. To them, we are “other” and to us, they are the “other” with all the good and ill that brings about.
Hilary, almost everyone’s insular. White people are isolated from other races. Americans are isolated from the rest of the world. Generally speaking.
The only way not to be insular (disregarding philosophical implications) is by constantly traveling and getting to know all kinds of people. Not many people do that, regardless of what color their skin is, their nationality or their hearing ability.
Exactly.
Agreed. It’s still quite possible that the deaf person choosing to interact with “only” signing friends still turns out to be much more well-rounded and happier than his/her counterpart who attempts to dot every single social “i” on the spectrum. For a long time, I thought that, if you were deaf, you *had* to make sure that some of your friends were hearing. But now I’ve come to realize that it makes absolutely no difference in how you choose friends, what really matters is how you treat everybody.
Chris: Some argued that the Gallaudet campus and many deaf schools are ingrained with insular which led us to have that feeling? I think, to an extent, it is. What about you?
r-
Hi Ridor:
I just think people are people, and we’re going to find a “range” of them no matter where we go and no matter what ideology we embrace. In that range we’ll find people who can cross over from one thing to another with relative ease, and some people who are so uncomfortable with (or terrified of) doing that, they won’t and never will. And I don’t think that only applies to minorities. That range exists within dominant majorities, as well. White males, for example, are one thing, and the KKK is another.
So as far as that goes, I think everyone is insular to some extent at least some of the time.
“I think everyone is insular to some extent at least some of the time.”
I’ll agree to that. Everyone can be an island at one time or another, it all depends on the emotional, physical, cultural, intellectual, and other tides, doesn’t it? Then again, Donne said no man is an island so the tides come and go but there are connections to the mainland….
Thank you Hilary. My thoughts exactly. I tried to say that above, but it fell on “deaf” ears (thus no comments on/acknowledgment of my point-whatever…) :-D
I’ve been preaching the mecca thing since I started posting a LONG time ago. “fell on deaf” ears… awww yeah.
*Giggles* Yep! I don’t even bother to read the deaf blogs as much anymore because they’re so self-absorbed and boring, touching on the same topics again and again and again. Or they slander (or allow their commenters to do so) and that’s a complete turn-off. Free speech comes with responsibility (ahem…RT…cough).
It’s ironic because I’m all for deaf rights and equality, but not at the politically/socially/logically unrealistic levels being promoted post-protest. Politically savvy minorities know how to pick their battles while building up political capital, and I’m afraid the Deaf community blew its share over JKF (and now KK and other people who made mistakes but did not deserve the wholesale “cleansing” the Deaf commentators are calling for - whether or not they realize it.) Just reading the blogs and the same retarded, closed minded, self-defeating lines spewed forth as “empowerment” is enough to make me seriously take another look at getting a CI and tell the Deaf community adios. Then I see interesting, thoughtful self-introspection like this blog, and I don’t quite give up hope. For that, Chris and the DeafDC gang, I am thankful.
“the same retarded, closed minded, self-defeating lines spewed forth as ‘empowerment’”….
Heh. Those are rather strong words, but I share your concerns about the deaf community being led by self-appointed leaders over a cliff like lemmings. And the apparent backlash against JKF supporters at Gallaudet is another cause for concern. That is going to make Gallaudet look bad in the eyes of Congress and the world.
But, seriously, that’s rather strong language. Heh. Better don your flame-proof suit and be glad you’re not posting under your real name.
Eh…ok, I agree those were strong choices for words. Sorry all. But you got my point, and that’s what matters. A lot of readers of DeafDC are in fact on the same page, or at least able to discuss differences intelligently and respectfully. I appreciate that.
No flame-proof suit required. I don’t give a damn what the folks around Gallaudet or the self-proclaimed leaders of the Deaf say about me. I’ve always stood strong on principles and common sense, and their gossip is hard to reconcile with proven character and my wish to see deaf truly empowered without tearing down the hearing community or ties to it in the process.
CS,
I agree with you about deaf blogs in general. That’s why I rarely peruse deafread.
However, echoing my earlier comment here, there’s a lot of self absorbed blogs out there. Millions of the read-about-what-time-I-took-my-medication, what-kind-of-bagel-I-ate-for-breakfast drivel beneath those great special interest blogs. Unlike some ridiculous deaf blogs, they don’t go to aggregrated blog sites.
I’m an “ASL-using, culturally Deaf person” who has heard the crap from many hearing people and their supporters (i.e., oralists, etc) that we are insular or isolated for practically my entire life.
Chris, I think you are being a tad literal when you tried to analyze “insular” (or “isolated”).
Since I’ve heard this crap my entire life, what usually happens is this:
I go around talking with my Deaf friends in ASL.
Boom, a hearing person or a culturally blind deaf person throws this insult: ‘You guys are insular/isolated and should join the real world!’
In essence, we ASL-using, culturally Deaf people are being told that to use ASL all the time and to spend bulk of our time with other signing Deaf people is a bad thing.
We’re supposed to ignore our basic need for full communication access and just grit our teeth and ‘join the real world.’
Ironically…the minute a signing, culturally Deaf person enters a nonsigning environment, s/he is TRULY isolated. TRULY insular.
But nooooooo….hearing people and their supporters don’t give a **** about that. Screw communication access. Screw quality communication. What’s so important to them: we Deaf people just have to be THERE, even if we don’t understand a damn thing anybody’s saying.
And that’s why the next time anybody tells me I’m “insular” and “isolated”, I tell them: Not in my world, I’m not. I’m insular and isolated in YOUR world. Provide me with full communication access and I’m there. Otherwise, forget it.
-Michele Ketcham
well? What’s wrong with trying to join the rest of the world? People don’t understand and treat you the way you are describing because similar individuals like YOU refuse to meet them half way.
That’s the whole problem with the world, racism, religious sects, medical malady differences, money, social status… it goes on. This is what people like to do, people LOOOOOOOVE —— DEEE-RAMA! People LOVE to fight, people LOVE to make others upset. well, you know, maybe not Virginia Beach but hey…. at least she’s trying. =)
Anyway, the point, Chris is weak in thought, you’ll have to forgive him, he just likes to talk, dwelling on “insular” and it’s meaning and how he feels rejected by the rest of the world. (sigh) whatever. It’s not so bad to try and work with the rest of the world. =) People don’t understand deaf culture and all they know of it is what they read in the media. So why can’t we educate them? Oh wait, that’s right…. a bunch feel that they are too good for that. =)
so instead of strapping on your combat boots and screaming for social justice, why dont’ you put on your thinking cap and say to yourself “hmmmmm how do I alleviate this this problem?” instead of taking the action: “oh I know! how about I cry about it on the internet!!” you could try and drop the shields and say “hey you know, of course it’s more comfortable to travel with birds of the same feather, if you get what I mean, but if you have any questions you are more than welcome to ask.”
okay that’s put aside….
with the internet rolling in full force and everyday people are joining the world of the intraweb. Pretty soon, everything will be done via video and work will be done from home through all internet means. EVERYTHING will have a caption to it in all forms of language. Dates will be made on the internet, friendships will be discovered through the internet, it’s already happening now, but the internet will control our lives in the future. All this bickering about “insular” “secularization” ” us vs them” “me vs the world” god… grow up already.
Hmmm. One thing I should point out. I got on the Internet back in 1987 (that is not a typo). Back then EVERYTHING was text. It was great!
If anything, over time, I’ve seen more and more English (or Spanish) materials become less and less accessible. Video clips and podcasts are increasingly popular, and rarely captioned or transcribed.
So forgive me if I don’t quite share this same rosy “oh it will all be captioned” burble that you have. Yeah, and “all tv will be captioned by January 2006.” Yup, and I have a bridge somewhere around here to sell ya; you want it?
Michele,
But by the very resistance to join once in a while the hearing world you are supporting the notion of being isolationist (I’m not going to use the term insular here). Granted, any hearing person who tell you that the deaf community is insular/isolationist and go as far as to encourage you to join the “real world” would be in the wrong. But if that person made an effort to say that in sign language or even wrote it down, that that person has made an implicit effort to try breach the communication barriers and join your world. I would hope those words wouldn’t be their first.
A lot of people here have compared deaf culture’s “isolationist” nature to that of many other minorities or cultures but they also have ignored that there were efforts to breach those cultural differences. You don’t have to stop talking in sign language, lose your deaf friends and that you have abandoned your identity the moment you make an effort to talk with hearing people. Granted, the conversation may not be as engaging or enlightening as with your ASL-deaf friends. Any communication barrier would naturally stymie that stimulating conversation, it is only with time that it gets better but perhaps never the same and that is acceptable.
By refusing to acknowledge that there is a case to make such an effort, you are in effect supporting being insular and isolated. You are also supporting their (in this case, the non-ASL hearing crowd) insular and isolated world.
By the way, I understand that anger in response to that person who would dare to say deaf culture is insular without making any efforts to try sign language. In that case, irritation or anger would be justified. But no harm in encouraging that person to learn some sign language and to try talk to that person in return.
DC Boots:
I am not “resisting” joining the hearing world.
I am not angry.
What I am resisting is being made or forced to accept substandard access and limited/poor communication just to make hearing people happy.
I have made a conscious choice to demand quality access in communication and not accept crumbs.
Yes, by all means encourage hearing people learn sign language. I’m certainly not against that.
Take a close look at Dead Tired’s experience in the hearing company she works for…this is a perfect example of what I am talking about: her boss and co-workers just want her THERE, but they don’t make any effort to include her or to make sure she has information that they are getting, even though she has been asking for that information.
I see that played out in the hearing society, over and over again, and I can guarantee that when Dead Tired talks to her boss about it yet again, they will just say “Oh yes, we will be sure to include you the next time” and then when the next time does come, she will be left out yet again.
Dead Tired is INSULAR and ISOLATED in her hearing company.
Yet, in the eyes of hearing society, Dead Tired’s insularity and isolation in her hearing company is somehow “better” and more acceptable than the so-called insularity and isolation in Deaf world.
(Side note to Punky: I don’t consider Chris Heuer “weak-minded” at all, and I have a lot of respect for him. Shame on you for saying so.)
Michele,
I appreciate your response. I understood the reasoning, but you missed the point of my response. My point is that if there are natural communication barriers (as often the case with a ASL-deaf person and an oral hearing person) then the quality of the conversation may not be up to your ideal standards and it is only with time that this improves, perhaps not to the same standard you would have with your ASL friends but it does improve nonetheless.
And I argued that by refusing to acknowledge this and demanding immediate and 100 percent quality talk, you are in effect supporting being insular or isolated for all cultures/communities/individuals concerned.
Hearing people also have to accept the the same “substandard access and limited poor communication” in order to communicate with us. I doubt that their concept of 100 percent quality conversation includes notewriting or medicore sign language, yet we encourage, or even demand that they do this in order to communicate with us.
And that is good in my opinion (each to their own). That is acceptable, because not every culture or community share a language or same communication tools. There are differences even between British’ English and American English. There will be clashes, and even poorer level of communication between French and Americans who don’t know each others language well. But that should not discourage effort on either side to communicate and it would be unrealistic to demand 100 percent quality in such a scenario. It is only with time, on an individual basis that it does improve.
As for Dead Tired, since I do not know her personally and know the background I must respectfully decline to make her the topic or to use her as an example. Without intimate knowledge of her situation, I cannot predict the outcome of any course of action she pursues. However, I will say this - I too work in a hearing company and I have encountered similar difficulties (though not as difficult as hers) but I also have experienced close friendships derived from workplace and have had that carry over. I have learned, quite frankly, that it was more to do with personality and finding common interests outside of the workplace.
And let us be honest, there exist too in the deaf workplace exclusion of other deaf people on the basis that well, they don’t share common interests. This is not a cultural phenomenon limited to deaf people in hearing workplaces. Granted, the communication barrier makes it difficult to have a quality conversation but it is not insurmountable and should not be resisted on the basis that you won’t be able to debate the virtues of Karl Marx verses Jefferson in the very first conversation.
Still reading through the comments but I would disagree that power/insularity are interwined in the way that you said. In particular, I think one of the biggest problems ANY minority group faces is the INSULARITY of the majority, who refuse to open their minds to other or additional possibilities. Many people in the majority are insular because they have no reason to examine their opinions and worldview, and they have the power to deflect challenges to those views and opinions.
personally, I think the BIGGEST separation between anyone is money and power. It’s all about elitism, money talks and bullsh1t walks, it’s always been that way. It’s sad really, but everyone wants to be a part of something and feel accepted. Thus insularity.
Yeah, Paris Hilton is too insular to stay in jail and learn a little about real life ;-)
That’s a very good point, BEG. Never thought about it that way.
“culturally blind deaf person”??? What the heck is that? Blind people do not have a “culture” and the argument that just because you share a disability, you share a culture is baloney (not that that argument was made here…I’m just sayin’.)
This is why I have such a hard time with culture being attached to the deaf community. Suppose I learn Chinese and speak, write, and read it fluently. Does that make me cuturally Chinese? With deaf people, you have folks from all different sorts of races, backgrounds, religions, economic privilege, and educational levels. Losing one’s hearing and learning to communicate in ASL automatically makes one culturally deaf? Or just deaf? If I, as a white person, went among black people and lived for 50 years, would I become cuturally black, even after learning to speak the dialect? NO. So how can deaf people say that knowing and using ASL is a distinct cultural trait? Am I missing something? What is this so-called culture in the deaf community and why is it tied only to a language anyone can learn/use??
Ok waaaayy off topic.
I agree about the captioning being a pipe dream. There is no economic incentive for people to use manpower/time/money to caption video material. It’s done now because A) the law requires some instances or B) the producer has a big heart/deep pockets.
Such as…? I’d love to read substantive stuff, not the musings I see on deafread.
didn’t they say the same kind of thing about closed captioning decoders to be standardized in all tv’s? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm OH wait! they even said we’d never have video phones!
(slaps head) OH MAN i got ran over by an EMU!
Not to make light of this post or the issuing discussion, but will someone please explain why, after reading all these comments, I have a sudden urge to go read John Donne again?
Donne said, No man is an island. ;->
Well Donne!
Ouch, a bad pun that actually works. Congratulations, you win a cookie!
Interesting. I like your POV, but I wonder if the isolation / insulation is out of “self-defense.” For many years, according to my understanding and reading [being that I’m not Deaf] is that Deaf have long been mistreated and misconceived as being ‘less than humans” merely because they / you are Deaf. So it would seem that the insulation developed out of self-preservation. That is a typical response of any being, or culture, isn’t it? We’ve seen it with other cultures. But at one point is a person or group of people able or willing to associate with the larger group who have perceivable mistreated them previously? That’s my 2 cents.
Someone up yonder quoted him… :) You probably just read it and didn’t notice it.
Subliminal messaging within DeafDC!
(in response to #84328 by Ben M, in case this reply-within doesn’t work)
That’s true about traveling and getting to know others — I never said we can’t not be insular. I just think that it’s much more noticeable within the deaf community because of the communication gap/barriers/issues/pickyourownword that we all face to an extent, and in different ways. We’re deaf, they’re hearing. That in itself is a major identity issue that impacts communication. Yes, gender, race, ethnicity, etc., plays a factor. I may have white privilege, but I don’t have “hearing” privilege, and I recognize that. Nor do I have “male” privilege… and that’s something I always try to be aware of.
Even oral deaf people have communication issues — maybe even more than we do. Because not only do they have to handle the oral communication with other oral people (deaf/hearing), they may not sign, and if they don’t, they struggle to communicate with those who sign. So, yeah.
Education is the key — meeting various people, learning about them and their background, their cultures, etc. Our American culture is not homogeneous. Just take a look at life in the Appalachians versus life in NYC versus California. (And even within NYC — upper east side versus queens versus Williamsburg versus the projects in Harlem and the Bronx…) How people think, react to various issues, etc., depends largely on how they grew up and what values are important to them.
That’s the beauty of sociolinguistics. It’s not just about the language being used — it’s how we use it, how we communicate, and how our beliefs, values, etc., influence our communication.
Take me, for example. I have no problem using my voice day in and day out. I’m the only deaf employee at my workplace. I don’t request interpreters for 1:1 meetings. I’m okay with “managing” the communication myself. When I see someone who’s hearing, I automatically use my voice.
But I have a friend — deaf, grew up in a deaf family, uses ASL, and can speak and lipread pretty damn well, actually… and he chooses not to voice all the time. He forces hearing people to lipread him — he says by doing that, it brings them to his preferred way of communicating, rather than him feeling forced to use THEIR preferred style of communicating. That’s given me a lot of food for thought.
So, who knows?
:)
Oops, sorry SIM…I obviously missed your comment where you quoted him…but I see that you did get my meaning… **wink**
chuckle, Hilary….
Yup, obviously subliminal messaging at work here!
BTW…what gives with the change in this commenting program? DeafDC having a Freaky Friday or something?
It happens occasionally — it’s not the first time it’s happened here on DeafDC, but it has been quite a while. After all, no blog programming is perfect, and they use WordPress. So yes, I’d say it’s a Freaky Friday. Too bad it isn’t Friday the 13th. *wink*
*waving at Shane — gonna fix this?* :)
Being TOTALLY geeky (and revealing the English/linguistics lover in me):
MEDITATION XVII
Devotions upon Emergent Occasions
John Donne
Modern English Version:
No man is an island entire of itself; every man
is a piece of the continent, a part of the main;
if a clod be washed away by the sea, Europe
is the less, as well as if a promontory were, as
well as any manner of thy friends or of thine
own were; any man’s death diminishes me,
because I am involved in mankind.
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Olde English Version
No man is an Iland, intire of itselfe; every man
is a peece of the Continent, a part of the maine;
if a Clod bee washed away by the Sea, Europe
is the lesse, as well as if a Promontorie were, as
well as if a Manor of thy friends or of thine
owne were; any mans death diminishes me,
because I am involved in Mankinde;
And therefore never send to know for whom
the bell tolls; It tolls for thee.
(ganked from http://torch.cs.dal.ca/~johnst.....sland.html)
Yes, culturally deaf folks are insular by nature. I know my comment will be offensive to many deaf folks, but it is the truth. Let me start with you, Chris … I really don’t give a damn about how you define insular. I think most people know the most basic meaning of insular. That is being isolated from the broad society. Sorry to say … so-called capitalized (”D”) deaf people are their worst enemies. The world is very big and many wonderful thing are happening around the world. Big “D” deafies chose to miss those opportunities. Deafhood is a big farce. Billions of people in the world population don’t give a **** about deafhood. They need to wake up and face the reality! They need to learn how to work with the broad society. The world is not about deaf institutions or ASL … sorry to say!
In addition, the biggest problem with Gallaudet is that they don’t train their students to be productive and INTEGRATED members in the broad society. That is why many “GALLY” graduates ended up working in deaf institutions or organizations … or even worse, teaching ASL or/and living on SSI/SSDI. Really SAD!
(Meant for “Another Reality” above):
Lately I’ve been making a continuous decision to let comments such as yours pass unchallenged, because how you feel about Deaf people isn’t my problem, and you certainly have a right to your opinion. But I’m going to challenge you just this once to make a point. Billions of people in the world’s population don’t care about a lot of things, including English. Billions of people in the world’s population don’t live in the United States of America. And in a world where your job could be shipped to India tomorrow, you would do well to remember that. Over the next century the things those billions of people in the world’s population actually DO care about are going to get shoved right up in our faces, through the internet or otherwise. Stick around. So far as everyday life is concerned, what’s “mainstream” is already a hundred thousand times more fluid and global than it was fifty years ago.
Nonetheless I agree with you that all educational institutions (note that you say “deaf” and I say “all”) should train their students to function in mainstream society. But again, mainstream society is a lot of things with a lot of choices. And once you DO make certain choices over others, you too are going to inevitably isolate yourself somewhat, at least some of the time, from the ones that you didn’t make. There are simply too many for it to be otherwise. By virtue of the fact that you aren’t aware that thousands of choices more still exist, you’re isolated from them even now.
As for your views on Deaf people and ASL, clumping ALL people in a particular group together (whether they’re Amish farmers or Mexican factory workers or ‘women who choose to have children’ or Deaf people who teach ASL) and making the claim that they ALL feel the same way about something, or ALL react in the same way to things, allows for no range of opinion to exist among them. And that is simple stereotyping on your part. In other words… prejudice.
Many people who value ASL and who want to see deaf institutions succeed are also highly involved in the real world, and I hesitate to even say something like this because deaf institutions ARE a part of the real world. Who gave you the right to decide otherwise for everyone else? In any case that’s a reality that YOU need to face. If you aren’t ready to do that, once again, not my problem. But know that arguments such as yours do not impress me and do not intimidate me. And when we get to the point where they don’t intimidate anyone else, either, that’ll be a world worth living in.
You’re right about society not giving a damn about Deafhood and so on. I blogged about that exact topic. However, that doesn’t mean we should just quit discussing those things amongst ourselves. I think it’s about time that we start taking ownership of who we are. Affirming who we are, and not being ashamed of ourselves isn’t a bad thing.
With that said, we do need to learn how to differentiate between internal public relations and external public relations, so to speak.
Our external public relations has always been terrible, because in general, if you want to be brutally honest here, we haven’t been taught how to work with society at large. We’ve been taught to do what we’re told to. It’s much easier to keep us in line that way. History has proven that time again and again.
So we in general do need to learn how to do external public relations, and learn how to work with society at large, so we can win them over and preserve what we have, including ASL, and improve our quality of lives.
It doesn’t have to be either hearing world, or deaf world. It can be both.
DP, you know, I agree with you, but to do that we’re going to have to come to an understanding over what we mean by “society at large.” All hearing people, you mean? Hearing people who live in trailer parks and make under $20,000 a year? Hearing members of the NAACP who are also vets sitting in wheelchairs? Hearing people who are hooked on crack and live in alleys? Hearing people sitting on Death Row? Hearing Wall Street stock brokers? Hearing members of the KKK or of the over-80 Men’s Swimming team of Backwater, Idaho? All hearing parents of deaf children? Hearing members of Congress? Including ones who think the war in Iraq is a great thing and we should cut captioning all over the US in order to generate enough money to fund another hour there? Hearing people farming rice paddies in North Vietnam? Hearing Chinese coal miners who will be dead of lung cancer inside of five years?
What’s society at large? Redefining “insular” is hard enough. Anyone want to take a shot at defining which segment of society *counts?*
Hey and expanding on that, does anyone want to list all the ways in which some of these groups AREN’T insular? Especially from each other?
Chris,
I think utilizing the term insular is perhaps too broad for what certain people truly mean. Every cultural group are insular in some ways, and yet do make efforts to breach cultural differences and try communicate. The very fact of your having a hearing wife is proof of that, among many other examples littered throughout this thread. Yet every individual has a distinct cultural identity that naturally has to be preserved, and it can be argued that this distinct cultural identity needs isolationism to be preserved.
I think a more accurate and specific term to apply would be elitist. Insular or isolationist does hint at elitism but I have encountered ASL-Deaf people who ardently defend their way of life and yet do make (perhaps poor) efforts to communicate with oral deaf people and hearing people. So elitism could not be applied in that case, and as you implied, insularity exists for many groups.
But elitism does exist, and it is this that I think people truly are referring to. The refusal to acknowledge other groups, to engage in communicating with other groups or persons by reason of a different characteristic (they don’t sign? Screw ‘em!) is to me more elitist rather than isolationist.
What do you think?
Hi DCBoots:
I think you make many good points but I would have to say that not only are all cultures insular to at least some degree, but also that all cultures have their own individual caste systems (or systems of elitism) as well–not just Deaf people. The rich, the middle class, the poor… the highly educated, the moderately educated, the uneducated… all of these groups make up a system of elitism. I think that in America we have more upward (and downward) mobility, but the caste system is still there.
I think that there was once a time when–and this is just my opinion–to be considered truly culturally capital-D “Deaf,” you had to be profoundly deaf since birth, you had to have been born to a Deaf family (the more generations the better), you had to have learned ASL as your first language, and you had to have attended a residential school. But for what it’s worth I also think that’s changing now. I think that basing Deaf identity on these criteria was a destructive (though understandable) act, because nobody has control over his level of biological deafness, what family he’s born into, what language he’s first exposed to, or where he’s sent to school.
I think that the attainment of a “Deaf” identity is a much healthier process when it’s about choice and about characteristics one has some control over. Someone mentioned above that it seems foolish, for example, to attach a cultural identity to a language that anyone can learn (ASL). In other words if a hearing person can learn ASL, why can’t a hearing person become culturally Deaf?
That’s a point. My wife, for example, signs better than I do. What to make of that? I went to the Wisconsin School for the Deaf for two out of four high school years… then I was mainstreamed again. Yet many Deaf mainstream graduates sign far better than I ever will. What to make of that?
I base my own sense of Deaf cultural identity upon a far different set of criteria than the ones outlined above. I think a lot of people do. Maybe that makes it somewhat easier for some of us to move back and forth along the continuum between Hearing and Deaf people.
I agree. I find that fascinating that the process of being deaf has evolved and has made things murky for many people to adhere to the old set of criteria.
If you grant me this going of on a slight tangent, I recently read Niall Ferguson’s The War of the World: Twentieth Century Conflict and the Descent of the West. His thesis more or less was that mass war never truly ended and that the world wars were a result of economic volatility, ethnic disintegration and the end of empires.
It is the ethnic disintegration that is relevant to this topic. Niall Ferguson argued that the erosion of ethnic identity, even when intermarriage rates increased dramatically, led to an increase in tensions and ultimately even war. When the lines began to blur, a certain base of a specific group had defensive tendencies and would assault this even to the point of violence. When combined with economic violality, which gave this group political power then this defensive tendency and resentment would be encouraged and even explode into violence.
His thesis was interesting to read, and it was compelling stuff. I’m not sure if I agree with it. What reminded me of his book was your description of the old set of criteria applied to deaf culture. It reminded me of the criteria that (please forgive me for using this drastic example) the Nazis would apply to Jews and those who were not Jews. They were not alone, and other cultures used similar criterias to apply to certain minorities or even majorities in order to maintain their own “pure” identity.
And I think you are right, that it is healthier or easier to devise your own set of criteria from the old one that is more open minded and allow for greater interaction. In the end, this allow for greater benefits to occur for everyone concerned.
That said, I still think there are elites and elitism and it is this that people refer to when they accuse people of being insular. :)
(This is for CyanSquirrel:)
“Culturally blind deaf person”…this is a term I borrowed from Chris Heuer, actually, because it’s nicer than the term I personally use.
My term: “brainwashed” deaf person
Now for the full definition…a culturally blind deaf person is simply a deaf person who is unwilling or unable to rid herself/himself of all negative messages fed into that person by the hearing society.
Sample messages fed into deaf person by hearing society:
-Hearing is always better;
-Speech is better than signing;
-Communication is responsibility of deaf person, and any failure in communication is always the deaf person’s fault, never hearing person’s.
-Any failures in deaf education is the fault of deaf person’s, not the fault of hearing administrators or hearing teachers.
There are many, many more messages. The above is only the tip of iceberg.
And yes, you are missing something. To answer your final question (what is this so-called culture in deaf community and why is it tied only to a language anyone can learn/use) requires a separate column in itself.
I would explain to you, but not tonight…I’m too exhausted after taking care of a 20-month-old Deaf son today. :-)
Interesting. I see your point. Thanks for the clarification.
As for culture, this is a hard one for me to accept. I was not “deaf” until I went to Gallaudet and learned about and lived in the environment there. Then I came away thinking I am Deaf, but now back in the real world, I find myself repulsed by the immaturity and unrealistic views of the world the deaf at Gallaudet (many of whom are friends) often have. So maybe I’m not Deaf? This is the hard part. I use ASL/PSE in the company of deaf people and I use my voice and lipread in the company of hearing people. My household is mixed, with hearing signer, hard of hearing signer, late deafened signer (me) and culturally, prelingually deafblind signer, yet we all get along and share many of the same values and frustrations at the Gallaudet community. We ALL (even the hearing member) fight against the prejudice three of us experience in the workplace and in life in general because the only image people in this region have of deaf people are the hooligans that made a name for themselves in the protest (and the lackluster graduates that Gallaudet has produced for a while.) Are none of us Deaf? Are all of us Deaf? Boy…
I suppose there is no answer. It’s gonna be what you define yourself to be. And that’s the rub! Because the Gallaudet deaf community is trying to tell me and others what we are and what we are not. Who the hell are they??
Congrats on the Deaf son. I’m expecting in November and I’ll be ecstatic if the kid is deaf (does that make me Deaf???). My mom and I are both late deafened, and I wonder if it’s genetic (hers occured mid-30’s, mine age 12…progressively over the years).
I learned this long ago:
No man is an island
Great men all agree
So then a penisula
I will try to be.
Haha!
That is just what I needed, reading Chris’ blog and these entire comments! This couldn’t have come a better time. I almost didn’t get on the computer since I was feeling depressed.
The comment Chris made about his hearing wife “Dream sweet, honey, I hate your guts” made me laugh out loud. I have a hearing husband and told him what you said. He thought that was so funny.
Yesterday I had a meltdown after work. Like Hilary, I am the only deaf employee at my workplace. I use my voice as well. I ususally have a thick skin when working with hearing people since they are inconsiderate often.
However, yesterday I didn’t have thick skin. All day long things were not communicated to me. For example in the morning I had found out that a former co-worker came by the day before and had lunch with most of the co-workers. No one told me till I happened to find out by accident. I would have like to see that former co-worker. I let it slide and didn’t let them know I wasn’t pleased.
Later on, my boss (who is a poor manager that most of us don’t care for) took his two favorite employees with him to look at office furniture. He had told everyone except me that he and two others were going out for awhile. Later when I went looking for the boss, I found out why he wasn’t in. I started to get a little annoyed that I wasn’t informed or included in the conversation.
Hearing people from another department dropped by all day long. They all know I am deaf and that I use my voice. I have gone out of my way to communicate with them, putting them at ease. I have asked how they are, what they are doing, etc. However, they only say “hi” and never return the favor, asking about me, etc. As soon they see a hearing person they chat away, excluding me. I started to boil inside, wondering why in the hell they are being so rude! Don’t they know I have feelings and would like to be included??? Or are they that uncomfortable around a deaf person?? Or are they just plain ignorant that can’t be trained??
The straw that broke the camel was that I was getting ready to leave work early, I saw all of my co-workers, my boss, at least one person from other department in a big group. They were chatting and laughing hard. I had been in the room on the other side of the partial wall and didn’t even know they have a good ole time. (I don’t wear hearing aids and haven’t for 20 years.) I was seethingly mad. I have told them many times to grab me so I can be part of the group.
I left workplace quickly and broke down in my car, screaming and pounding the steering wheel. Since my husband and I carpool, I went to pick him up. I vented, vented, vented and vented some more. Poor hubby. He was incredibly understanding and supportive. (He drove us home. So I didn’t drive while furious.)
I have been considering not to work with other hearing people ever again, although I love what I do for living. Most of them are easy to understand. It is just that I am dead tired of reminding them to include me in conversation or to keep me inform of what is going on at work. I guess when I go back to work on Monday, I’ll have another talk with them. A big SIGH… There is another company which employ large number of deaf people. So I am kind of toying with the idea of applying there. I don’t know if my life would be easier if I work with other deaf people since I have never worked them.
Thanks for letting me vent!! I feel much better! Chris - Keep your blogs coming!
Dead Tired:
Go ahead and apply there…I guarantee you that communication will IMPROVE 100% because you will understand everything that is said. You will get that communication access automatically.
Go for it…it will be worth it.
Punky, your constant bashing of individuals who have certain beliefs are way past the point of “growing old.” Here’s a novel thought: Don’t read the posts, or if you do, please do refrain from any comments that do not provoke discussion based on the merits of points raised in the blog entry and comments.
Here’s a question for DeafDC administrators and readers: Why is it that people who speak up in favor of a strong deaf center get bashed, while those who favor assimiliation are more or less left alone and their ideas are discussed on the merits alone? Seems rather inequitable and impolite to me. I don’t see anybody bashing punkybrewster or CyanSquirrel, for example, but Chris Heuer and some regular commenters sure take a whole lot of flack. Food for thought, hmm?
I find it hard to believe the claim that those who, as you say, “favor assimilation” are left alone. I recall quite a few times that the people you mention among others do receive vitriolic responses. Let us not forget that those who do favor mainstream communication tend to be singled out by those who adamantly refuse any form of communication with hearing people. For instance, the derisive term of “Borg” applied to those who use Cochlear Implants.
So to sum up, I don’t think you can truly make the case that those who favor either a “strong deaf center” or “assimilation” receive more favor anywhere.
Good response DCBoots. I think DeafDC.com is a good place for both sides to bring their perspectives and thoughts and hash them out together. It’s a lot healthier to engage in discourse, inquiry, and critical thinking (and humor!) than join a chorus of comments repeating the same thing which often praises the blog/blog entry. And that’s why I value comments like yours.
I don’t think those who favor a strong deaf center always get bashed. When they do get bashed, it’s because of their constantly negative approach. A balance has to be struck between the positive and negative aspects here.
As for Punky B., I disagree. I think she gets bashed on an equal basis as those who have a ’strong deaf center’ but some of us regulars go easy on her because I think she’s a perfect example of how unwelcoming the deaf community can be. She is the product of our rage directed towards the hearing and those who are just discovering our culture and community.
While it is true she has control over her own actions, and can choose how she reacts to events, Punky is like many of us - we tend to let our emotions control us instead of the other way around.
So yeah … I think it’s a very stark reminder for us that our actions have consequences, and that we need to be a bit more careful in our approach in our fight for equality.
Deaf Pundit:
I have seen Chris get bashed even when he’s not using a negative approach. No matter how nicely he puts across his ideas, he gets labeled as angry, negative, etc etc.
I personally have had the same experience and my first posting here is a perfect example of this. I certainly wasn’t being negative or angry, yet my message was dismissed as being “angry” and/or “negative”, simply because I suggested that Deaf people should demand quality communication and access, and that Deaf people are actually more insular and isolated in hearing world than Deaf people are in Deaf world. Simple concepts, right? Reasonable expectations, right?
Michele:
I do think Chris does get bashed sometimes, but I think for the most part, people just strongly disagree with him. I certainly do, because while we agree that deaf education needs to be reformed, we’re oppressed, and that we shouldn’t be ashamed of being deaf, we totally differ in our philosophies and approaches on how to deal with those issues.
I don’t really recall your first post, but it’s unfortunate that you felt that you were bashed for it. I’m sorry that happened.
It’s fine for people to share stories of their oppression. We all need to vent sometimes and we learn from our shared experiences by suggesting coping methods on those things.
But I absolutely REFUSE to accept the idea of the end justifying the means, so we can achieve equal and full communication access. Because when we start thinking that the end does justify the means, we’ve lost the fight, because then we’ve allowed our emotions to rule us, and we’re breaking practically every ethical and religious principle out there.
Not only that, but I also don’t think every single bad thing that happens to us is always due to audism. I think bad things happen to us for many reasons, including greed, ignorance, and sheer stupidity, and it is irresponsible for us to refuse acknowledgment of that!
Cali,
No need to bash me. I’ve never said bashed anyone else. I’ve just expressed unpopular opinions. Two very different things…
OH My goodness! a chris heuer lapdog!
I’m impressed by your enthusiasm to stand your ground and speak up for others. Yer a real go-to guy. =)
yeah, quite a few here seem to be eating up the bits and pieces of the trash chris writes every week. there are a few writers that I enjoy reading on this blog that I keep from posting, those are such writers as the feldmans, stone, and a few others. =) I know I mentioned that I would stop posting on chris’ blogs, but i just can’t seem to help myself, I guess i get that way when I’m IRRITATED.
The crap he posts, “I got into a long argument with someone over the meaning fo the word insular, but i gave him other examples of why I disagree with him/her by using the behavior of Pokemon’s as a formidable argument against his.” The role model of the future of today, of tomorrow, and then some!! (applause)
Punky,
One person’s trash is another’s treasure. Some have asked me when you will stop posting your “trash” on DeafDC.com while others really like what you have to say. You may not like Heuer’s blogs, but I do.
With all due respect, Shane, I was under the impression that the deafdc.com website was set up for deaf professionals. Some of the blogs and postings, particularly Mr. Heuer’s arcane and ubiquitous ramblings, have caused me to wonder what kind of professional image you are trying to project. You had a good thing going until recently. Now is the time to exercise a measure of quality control.
For Bert,
“Arcane ramblings…” This coming from the guy (YOU) who said he wasn’t impressed with statisticsl evidence in Julie’s blog about language. You’re an idiot. Normally I wouldn’t attack anyone but you deserve it because you attack EVERYONE under the mask of “with all due respect.” You’re the perfect simple and small-minded example I try to steer my son away from every day.
There are times when my frustration with the readership of this blog borders on disgust. Chris is a powerful and passionate writer. You’re lucky to have him here. For once there’s someone who is a strong Deaf person who makes arguments that I can UNDERSTAND! I’m a hearing person with a deaf kid! What more od you want? This is what you keep saying you want to get hearing people on your side. Well here I am and I’m telling you the person who consistently makes the most sense to me is Chris Heuer.
Deaf Pundit, I have some criticism for you: you keep posting that somebody else said it better than you ever could. Why don’t you give it a try and say it yourself. Then you’ll have to face the same risks Chris faces without being able to hide behind your mother’s interpretations of everything that happens to you.
And now for your defense of the poster punkybrewster who is just 100% NOISE… why is it Chris’ fault that he or she hates Deaf people so much? In fact why is it Chris’ fault that ANY of you hate each otehr so much????? Your attitudes make me sick.
Chris, keep your blogs coming. I can’t remember who said this but there’s a quote that says “Simple minds are the hobgoblin of great spirits.” or something like that. People need to read what you have to say and that’s the only reason they fight you as hard as they do.
Good luck.
I LOVE YOU!!!!!!! =D
Punky,
I do not understand your continuity of constant hatred.I challenge you to do a post breaking down the aspects of this hatred with valid thought process and valid facts before you are ever taken seriously in any shape or form. First of all you accuse of arcane ramblings and then you ramble on and on about nonsense. The mere fact that parent has brought up a comment that was in terms extremely appropriate for its content. And the fact that Chris Heuer has conversations with individuals that create dialouge that creates a new way of looking at things is not arcane. At least Chris is able to have an intelligent conversation that creates thinking outside the box on various topics related to Deafness is in itself extremely crucial to trying to find ways to change the Deaf community.
Bert what bug crawled up your ass? Chris has intelligent conversations that lead to thinking outside the box and he strategically breaks down the topic that leads to a coherent outcome. Whereas you simply sit and uphold people who like to hide behind a keyboard and abuse others on the internet. Gee that is really tough and professional of you sir. I sarcastically applaud you for your genuine insight.
Correction Burt said Arcane, Punky said Crap and Trash. I really do not see a distinction between the two comments. After all a synonym of arcane is unknowable which I think translates to a fancy way of saying some one pretty much knows crap.
JP,
Let me make this PERFECTLY clear…. I don’t hate anyone. I don’t hate you, even though I might think you are an imbecile. (shrugs) It doesn’t matter…. I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again, I’m a prick, I’m angry, I have a bug up my A$$ about a few things. That’s my problem and Perhaps I should seek other outlets for them, but here I am.
Either way, I don’t have a hatred for any one, I have a DISDAIN for people who have this idea in their heads that things should be handed to them without question regardless if they earned it or not. Not only that, I also despise people who try to force upon others their belief’s no matter how impudent or ignorant they may be….. Case in point, Erick Ketcham and RLM (either one.)
LASTLY, Everyone knows I’m hard of hearing, everyone knows I have a Cochlear implant, everyone knows I can speak and everyone knows that I’m not culturally deaf.
Well, growing up I felt left out by the hearing world, something seemed to be missing, I embraced the fact that I could use hearing aids, but refused to get a Cochlear implant and preserved my uniqueness by continuing to use sign language (not ASL.) Later on, I had enough… so I thought to check out the deaf community in hopes of some type of “unity” and thought I would feel less “left out.” So I came to Gallaudet…. plunged right into the deaf culture. Even took those summer 3 week events that give a crash course on ASL. For a while it seemed fun and I was patient and kept trying to fit in. Joined clubs, associated with SBG, hung around in bars, neglecting my schoolwork to find some sense of belonging. Then it took a turn for the worse. I still wasn’t accepted, I still couldn’t find out where I belonged…. people like Ricky, Carl Ewan, Mary Lott, majority of the people in Kappa Gamma and that owl sorority (I forget the greek letters) Those strong deaf community individuals, who turned me away and refused to accept me for who I am, I even applied to be in Kappa Gamma but according to the leader I wasn’t ‘Deaf enough’…. keep in mind this was many years ago, so i dont’ know what their regulations are like now. . I’ll be honest, I met some great people and made some great friendships… but the struggle cost me a-plenty. It cost me my pride, my sense of belonging, my sanity, and rewarded me with bitterness.
so here I am….. enclosed in my own world,
I can’t get out or into another. I don’t hate anyone. But if you can’t join em… here’s a finger. =) I’ll find my way, so far it’s been comfortable, little lonely, but rewarding in the future sense of things.
In conclusion: If the people like to read about Chris arguing with ali baba about the meaning of the word “Ineptitude” Or he writes about his experiences riding on a carpet with Lucy and the diamonds in the sky…. That’s fine…
If Shane thinks Quality blogs are for contradictory thoughts and comments that go off in every damn direction, so be it. Far be it from me to ask or even “terrorize” him to remove them from the list of bloggers. If I think a high quality person can do better than what he/she is doing now… you can bet your bottom dollar I’m gonna be a dick about it.
HAVE A NICE DAY! BE SURE TO TIP YOUR WAITRESS. (thumbs up!)
Punky,
I can relate. When I first went into a completely deaf environment some made fun of me or rejected me. However, those who had a open, welcoming mind became my friends (this includes some who are very passionate about ASL and Deaf Culture, being that kind of person doesn’t necessarily mean that they will always reject outsiders). I described what I went through to a hearing friend and he said he had similar experiences at his college, even though it is a hearing environment.
Also, what makes you think I can (or should) control the direction of comments in DeafDC.com?
Punky,
As a recent graduate, the Greeks are still the same exclusive bunch of bull as they used to be. KG has done better on focusing on scholarship (of beers you can drink). Phi Kappa Zeta (the Owl’s) are a clique of smart, but very Deaf, young women. Let’s just say sororities and fraternities are there for those who need a ready made identity, but far too many people come away with a sour taste in their mouths (here and at hearing colleges).
I thought you were a girl, laughs, until I read your post. You aren’t the only one with a bug up your arse at the Gallaudet deaf community. i have one because I don’t like people who have never been hearing telling me hearing is the enemy…nor do I like said people deciding that culture is black and white: you’re either Deaf or not. No middle ground.
and people say I have an “unrealistic” disdain for the deaf community.
IF… I had known how isolated and “insular” they were, hmm I’d probably never end up on this blog.
(scratches chin) there’s a thought, if the deaf community had been more open and less “insular” I wouldn’t be on this blog! wow! now you have ANOTHER reason to complain about the deaf community at gallaudet… THEY SPAWNED THE EVIL PUNKY!
*winks* Not evil. Keep telling it how you see it, Punky. It’s nice to know I’m not the only one turned off by the whole Gallaudet Deaf-is-champ-all-else-is-inferior schtick. The deaf community needs to understand that just because one disagrees with the methods and attitudes present in a situation, that does not make one anti-Deaf, an enemy, or an unsavory traitor. Your opinions add unique perspectives to the larger community and deserve to be heard just as much as those “ASL is the best thing since sliced bread”-ers.
You’re not alone in those thoughts about Gallaudet while as a student or about the Deaf community as a whole. I’ve broached that topic numerous times in my blog. I even went so far as to vocally speak at the podium instead of signing at Gallaudet during the vlog/blog conference that took place earlier this year. And after I did my blog poll I found out that for the most part people supported me when I choose to use my voice at the conference while they had interpreters and real-time captioning. Had I done that during the hey days of early 1990s I’d have been tarred and feather already.
Insularity can breed lots of contempt.
First off, A parent, do we know each other? Because if you really knew me, you wouldn’t have said that. Secondly, please tell me how many times total I’ve said that. Give me an exact number, please.
It seems to me that for some reason, my ideas are threatening to you. I wonder why.. maybe it’s because I’m encouraging the deaf community to examine other possible motives for people’s behaviors instead of blaming it all solely on audism and not be so destructive with their anger, but instead to be proactive, unlike some others?
As for my defense of punkybrewster, you’re entitled to your opinion, and I never said it was *Chris’* fault that punky hates deaf people, and I don’t think she actually hates us. I was referring to the attitudes of the deaf community towards those who aren’t completely culturally Deaf, which has had a huge influence on how punky is today.
The total is 42, and that’s the answer!
Hello all,
I’ll be working on fixing the threaded comments tomorrow. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Test
Ok everyone, threading works again. Again, sorry for the inconvenience.
Hi Punky Brewster,
I have to agree with you. Every now and then, I need a reminder not to check this site. Too many pretentious, pompous bores here … both writers and the readership of this site. I would rather to spend a night spooning with Ridor than talking with most of you. *****YAAAAWWWWWWNNNNNN*********
[…] about a conversation I had with my mother the other day. I was explaining to her about a thread on DeafDC, where the topic of my eye doctor violating my civil rights was brought […]
Whoa, this blog has gotten out of hand. Please review the terms and conditions before making a comment:
It’s simple. Do not make any offensive, personal attacks on other commenters or DeafDC.com bloggers. This kind of behavior will not be tolerated. Action taken may range from deletion of offending comment to site-wide ban, with or without notice.
If you have any questions, please contact info@deafdc.com.