Billy Joel: The Reason I Won’t Get A Cochlear Implant
By Chris Heuer on Sun 8 Apr 2007 |
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About four years ago my older brother Warren got a cochlear implant. He had the surgery done in the spring and the processor was all hooked up by the time my wife and I came home to visit that summer. Mom called and told me the news. While she didn’t come right out and say it in so many words, I could tell she was hoping I’d follow his lead and get one next. For her sake I tried to appear neutral and open-minded.
To be clear: I’m not the type of person who really cares all that much whether a deaf adult gets an implant or not… as far as I’m concerned, once you’re eighteen you call your own shots. I’m also fully aware that parents are having their kids implanted at earlier ages in order to counter language acquisition barriers. But as an educator, what I see is all too often the end result of a parental fantasy. Too many of them are hoping—in some cases desperately—that an implant is going to make everything okay. When it inevitably doesn’t, the disappointment shuts them down all the more. What kid deserves that?
But that wasn’t the case here. Though Warren and I both share the common bond of deafness, our lives didn’t develop around it in the same way. He was mainstreamed his whole life and never learned how to sign. I was mainstreamed until high school, and then went to the Wisconsin School for the Deaf. I’ve since worked mostly in signing environments, and while half of my friends are hearing, most are signers. He, on the other hand, worked in hearing environments his whole life. His friends are hearing, and so is his daughter. In fact he never really showed much of an interest in getting an implant until she was born.
That’s why I decided to keep my opinions about CIs to myself around him. He was getting one because of her. His decision wasn’t about identity issues or making a political statement. We’d never really talked about ASL or Deaf culture. I always got the sense that he didn’t want me to. At the time I thought I understood. If his mainstream experience was anything like mine, he got through it by blending in as much as possible. Keep living your life that way, and sooner or later your entire personality becomes a survival skill. And while ASL can offer you many things, invisibility isn’t one of them. So… live and let live. From that perspective, ASL isn’t much of an option.
But I was curious. Did the implant work or didn’t it? When he was a teenager, his hearing aids (like mine) ended up in a box stuffed in the back of his desk drawer. It wasn’t just because of the “don’t stand out” thing. They honestly didn’t do much for me. A couple of years back I picked up some Widexes, just to see if the Age of Digital Technology really had anything on the older models. I knew it would take a bit of time to get used to wearing them again, but nothing could have prepared me for the raw amount of racket that hammered my skull while riding on the metro. Blaring announcements in foreign gibberish, deafening squeals (yes, deafening all over again) every time the subway braked to a halt… I had a throbbing ache in my neck by the time I got home. Even my eyeballs hurt.
Don’t get me wrong, this wasn’t a Widex problem. It’s an expectation problem. “Racket” isn’t all we used to hear; either me or Warren. We weren’t born deaf. We went deaf—gradually—and the onset followed pretty much the same time frame: mild losses and hearing aids by the second grade; profoundly deaf by age twenty-five.
But there’s a lot of space in twenty-five years for listening to things that sound like harmonic masterpieces. My hearing faded out with the popularity of Guns N’ Roses. His faded soon after Billy Joel’s Greatest Hits came out. And while I won’t go so far as to say Guns N’ Roses ever produced what you could call a harmonic masterpiece (though they did rock); Billy Joel is right up there with the angels.
Warren loved the whole album, and so did I. Allentown, Piano Man, The Longest Time… all are pitch-perfect. Our hearing sister never even had to write out the lyrics to his stuff (the way she did for other songs) so we could follow along. We could pick out the words easily; his voice is a musical instrument in and of itself. Remember that scene in Children of a Lesser God where William Hurt gets stuck trying to explain Bach to Marlee Matlin? As a person who can appreciate the complexities of the task from both perspectives—his and hers—let me tell you something: if he’d been a Billy Joel fan instead, it wouldn’t have been such a problem.
In fact there was a Billy Joel CD sitting on Warren’s television that day when the two of us stopped by his house to pick up an air conditioner for Mom. Warren walked through the door ahead of me. I called out his name to see if he’d turn around. Call it a test, a propaganda buster. Is the technology really getting better all the time? Put your money where your ears are.
To my surprise he did turn around, though I had to repeat his name a few times.
“What?” he asked.
I tapped the side of my head and pointed at his implant. “Level with me. Does that thing really work?”
“Sure.”
“Better than hearing aids?”
He nodded. “I think so.” I glanced over at the Billy Joel CD, and he caught this. “You thinking about getting one?”
I shrugged, suddenly uncomfortable again.
“What’s the problem?”
In retrospect, I think that was the day I realized there was a lot more to my resistance to implants than just the theory that hearing parents who get them for their deaf children are living in denial. Want to know what new conclusion I came up with? Through a Widex, Billy Joel doesn’t sound like Billy Joel. He sounds like a Mack truck crashing into a church. But take it off, and he sounds like Billy Joel again. Like I said, it’s a question of expectation. No hearing aid or implant is ever going to beat that mental radio in your skull. If you already know what things should sound like, it’s very tough to settle for what they don’t sound like.
“How about music?” I asked.
“It’s not the same, no.”
“The implant screws it up?”
“Yeah.”
His answer pretty much told me all I wanted to know. And in the years since, I’ve never really explored the question further. After all, what place is better than that for giving up? Still, whenever I go home, there he’ll be, talking with his daughter and listening to her tell him how her day went; what she did in school. I’ve taught her a couple of signs, and in our own fashion we do the same thing. But you can tell that she’s starting to notice: he has an implant, and I don’t. I sign, and he doesn’t. Actually most of our family doesn’t. Why is this? My sister’s hearing children have already asked me these questions, and when they did I explained to them as best as I could. There’s no reason to expect that Warren’s daughter won’t ask me, as well.
I wonder what I’m going to say to this time around.
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Thanks for sharing. That’s one question I wanted to be answered. Music is still in my life and I use headphones or crank it up louder in the car. BTW, I saw Guns and Roses in ‘91. That was a phrase back then. New album when? :)
Thank you, Chris, for your insightful blog. I am the music teacher for the Alaska State School for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing. As more and more of our elementary-age students get CIs, my teaching becomes more multi-faceted. I strive to provide quality musical experiences for my students deaf and hard of hearing. I am learning so much from the other postings, as well. Thanks to all for adding information to this ever-growing field.
~Elizabeth
That’s one of the things I was waiting to hear about CI’s…from people who have memory of hearing to tell what the CI experience is like in comparision. I hope more stories like this will come out so profoundly Deaf people can get some idea of what to expect from the CI.
If the CI can’t closely mimic what sound or rather, music, is supposed to sound like, then what’s the whole point? Is it safe to assume that all the CI does is send “digital copies” of actual sound to the brain and once it arrives, it gets interpreted as being “noise” because it isn’t the “real thing” - and that this is even the case for those who have well-stocked, sound memory banks?
And it’s my understanding that new CI users undergo intensive auditory training in an effort to have the brain relearn what it means to hear and do so in an entirely different aural paradigm.
I was also always under the impression that the CI would be incredibly successful for those who have these well-stocked, sound memory banks but the above experiences suggest otherwise.
Hi Chris,
Based on your history, I don’t think you will like CI - especially with music.
I have CI myself and I love listening to music with it.
BUT…I was born DEAF so I have nothing to compare it with so no complaints from me.
I had talked to people with CIs prior to getting one myself…different backgrounds - those who heard before and those who never heard before.
Those who heard before…most of them hate music. Something is missing. One lady described it as “lack of depth”. I never understood what that meant, but perhaps you do.
Those who never heard before… generally like the music.
But the processor is designed for SPEECH, not music. Music is way more complicated and I don’t think they will EVER be able to offer anything like that in order to hear music like a hearing person does.
Now, when I say I enjoy listening to music - it does not mean I understand it. I love NOISES. I still rely on ASL interpreter (like MikeS doing the songs in ASL) to hear the words and what is being played. I love listening to music with my husband, but I have been a music lover LONGER than with my CI. Remove my CI, I’ll still enjoy music!
I’m a strong visual person so that means I need to see what I’m hearing - a person playing guitar and I know I’m hearing THAT, for example.
But at concerts, sometimes my processor will shut itself off because it’s customized to meet your tolerances – lowest and highest. Whatever goes higher than that level, it will shut itself off. So….there is periods of times when instruments are too loud and it will just shut off. I got used to this – doesn’t really bother me because I’m used to feeling the vibrations! I think vibrations ROCK! :D
But on my laptop where I can control the volume, I can listen with lyrics in front of me – preferably someone signing the song to me. I don’t like having to work so hard trying to follow along with the lyrics in front of me – and it’s way more fun doing it with someone else who is also enjoying the song!
I don’t know if that helped…but if you wanted to hear music again – CI is not the way to go. Nope. Not from what I’ve been told by people who lost their hearing like you. They end up listening to simple music.
So dude… just work on the vibrations!! :D
I think you’re on to something. I read an essay in “Best American Science Stories” about a man with a CI who was trying to figure out the best way to listen to music. In the essay, he explained pretty much what you do here - its not meant to pick up music, rather speech. and it has to do with something called “channels”? the CI doesn’t have enough “channels” to truly hear music. Thats not to say it won’t some day..
I’ve always enjoyed your writing and enjoyed meeting you (albeit briefly) at the conference.
However, your admission that you enjoy Billy Joel just raises you to new levels in my eyes. Not only is his music accessible in terms it being rock-and-roll, but his voice and lyrics often seem (at least to me) to be more accessible to deaf/HoH folks. Don’t ask me to explain it other than to note that many of the other deaf/HoH kids in my mainstream program back in the 80’s also enjoyed Billy Joel too.
“For the longest time….”
With my hearing aid during one of those rare times I was able to have one (long story with my history with hearing aids), I have tried to use the lyrics to help me follow the music and it isn’t always that easy to do because of all the background music that goes along with the words. It is like I have to sift through all the music to the words. At some times, the words would be clear but then they disappear into the words and then I get lost on where we are with the lyrics.
So makes me wonder if it is not just the hearing aids or CI.
Even my mother says that she likes to look at the captions when a musician is on so that she can catch the lyrics of the musician. So even for a hearing person who can discriminate between sounds better, it isn’t always that clear.
You raise a good point, Jessica.
My husband likes to listen to an album over and over and over until he gets it. I remember it took him ONE month to get the entire album.
That’s why my ASL interpreters can screw up the songs because they can’t get the words in - even if they practiced for two days. Two days is NOT enough if you don’t know their music.
I just thought of my kids now…I do notice them listening to a song over and over. I’d ask them to tell me the words and they’d tell me, “Well, I gotta listen some more….I’ll tell you when I get it.”
Hmm. Interesting food for thought, Jessica! :)
It just takes me longer than them. If you like that song, you’ll have to listen to that a lot before you get used to it, I guess.
Chris, on the other hand, would not enjoy music with CI though. He would know what is missing.
So maybe that is why singers like Billy Joel come out more clearly than many others where you can hear the words more clearly and at the same time enjoy the music that accompanies the words. I don’t know as I have never tried to listen to him. I am not much of a music fan so better to rely on others’ input on this more than mine.
I know that some music was easier to follow than others because of that.
Interesting comments here about how we listen to music. I will have to ask hearing people more about their experiences with listening to music.
Great blog, Chris. I enjoyed reading it.
The soundtrack of my inner mind is from the early to mid-70s. My favorite musician to listen to from that time was James Taylor. One of the big reasons, other than the sound of his mellow Carolina voice over the instrumentals, was that he nearly always included the lyrics to his songs in the sleeves of his records. (Yes, folks, vinyl records, not cassettes, CDs, etc. I’m ancient.) I listened to them over and over and over again. Must have made my hearing family more nuts than they already were.
I’m also a fan of Aretha Franklin and a few other ladies of soul from that era. But with Aretha, I basically liked her band (Burt Bacharach smooth orchestra type sounds) and never heard her voice.
Lest anyone be thinking I’m hopelessly old-fogeyish… I also grooved to the acid rock rhythms of Steppenwolf, Three Dog Night, the Byrds, and the Steve Miller Band too! Along with my black lights and love beads.
After I got the CI, a few things changed with that.
1. James Taylor sounds terribly nasal.
2. I finally heard Aretha’s VOICE!! Yowza… I was able to follow along with the lyrics with ease.
3. Steve Miller Band et al sounded horrible. And when I read their lyrics online, not only do they make no sense whatsoever (guess that’s why it’s called “acid” rock?), they were also pretty misogynistic. Ugh! I think that type of hard rock sounds best without any artificial amplification.
So, to conclude, it’s been a mixed bag re CI and music.
Would you believe, I’ve never listened to Billy Joel? My interest in music faded out after Elton John and Pointer Sisters…. even though he was from that era too, just never got around to listening to him. I’ll have to check it out. Would “Greatest Hits” be a good one to start with?
I listen to music on the radio during my commutes home and most of it sounds OK. It’s still weird trying to get used to hearing the voices singing instead of the instrumentals that I’m so used to. I’ve heard that it’s possible to program some implants to make music more “musical” instead of “speech-like.”
Hi CE:
Oh, I loved James Taylor too!!! And so did my brother. My wife still listens to Handy Man all the time and I’m trying to get her to listen to Her Town Too, which I think is one of his very best…
I have no idea what your implant will make him sound like, but I would be very interested in your report on that!!! Um, I would say… if you want the fullest possible exposure to him, start with Billy Joel’s Greatest Hits (Volumes I and II). But then understand he can sing comfortably and powerfully at every range between low and high. So to really appreciate a song like The Longest Time, a sort of barbershop quartet kind of thing where he created over twenty overlapping tracks of his own voice singing at all the various pitches (is it called bass and tenor?), it’s better to start out with something where he sings the whole song in a low voice, such as Allentown. Then choose one where he sings pretty much the whole thing in a higher voice… such as… well, I can’t think of one offhand because he sort of starts out low on a lot of stuff and them moves into these beautiful high finishes. I think Uptown Girl was on the high side.
That’ll also get you ready for Goodnight Saigon, where he starts out low and finishes every line on the high side (he does this in Tell Her About It too).
Let me know what you think. I’m interested in getting some CI feedback on this…
Hi Chris,
As a long time CI user and amateur musician, I have to say that learning to hear music with a CI depends on several things, such as:
1. how skilled your audiologist is at programming a CI for music - you can ask for a music program if you like.
2. how much effort you are willing to expend to learn to hear music with a CI.
The hearing healthcare industry has spent a lot of time developing CIs for speech understanding, but not much has been done until recently for music perception. Also, not many CI audiologists have received training on programming CIs to process musical input well.
(One reason I started http://www.aamhl.org was to spread awareness of the above issues and to provide a place for adult CI musicians to discuss these issues as well.)
When I got my CI, I forced myself to stay away from my beloved violin for the first six months after activation. As my audiologist suggested, I purposely lowered my expectations for being able to understand musical information. Rhythm came back within 96 hours after activation. Tone quality of instrumental music
became easier to differentiate within a month, unlike the early activation stages where Rossini’s Barber of Seville (think of the music that goes along with Bugs Bunny’s barber cartoon) sounded like a garbage truck going through. Right now, I’m back to playing music and took up viola 2 years ago.
So, my conclusion is that music perception with a CI varies from individual to individual, and I feel the two factors I mentioned at the top of this post should be taken into consideration.
Best regards,
Wendy Cheng
As someone who was implanted at age 6 without really understanding what it meant to get the CI, I’m so grateful my parents took the initiative. Hearing aids didn’t do jack for me. I was born profoundly deaf, so my options were quite limited.
When it came to getting the CI, my parents were primarily concerned with my safety. The CI actually saved my life one time while I was walking across the street, when a stupid truck driver peeled out of an alley. There was no car horn or anything. I only heard a short instant of tires squealing and ducked out of the way.
With the Nucleus Freedom, I can tell the differences between different types of birds, especially when they’re the same species at different distances.
Speech has always been my biggest point, and without the CI I wouldn’t be able to understand speech at all. Yet I don’t get it 100% of the time. I did just as relatively well with the 22 channel in terms of speech alone, but now my speech threshold is lower (which is good).
I think part of the reason why I understand speech so well is because of my deep exposure to Cued Speech, but I can’t subjectively claim that.
I do enjoy being deaf from time to time, especially when it comes to sleeping in all day on the weekends. Yet, I feel as if I couldn’t survive without my hearing, or function as well in the real world.
If you like Billy Joel, you’ll like Marty Robinson, Roy Orbinson, or even Johnny Cash. Lots Ballad type songs with words you can understand.
Cat Stevens, Jim Croce, and Harry Chapin too.
I love my CI. =)
I honestly don’t think I could live without it, I just wish my parents had implanted me a long time ago.
I’m not going to follow the same ol’ redundant “it depends on the individual,” line. so, I’m just going to say, being able to communicate with the mainstream is far more beneficial than spending most of your life inside the walls of an ideology. So, implanting a child is and should always be the decision for the parent. you can bet your bottom dollar that if my child is deaf, s/he will be implanted (if s/he is a candidate.) The young years are tooooo critical for language acquisition. so by legal age, If s/he decides that s/he’d rather take the road towards the screeching protesters, so be it.
Chris, I’ll admit this was a good read, but it reeks of bias. I really don’t understand why you wrote it. you aren’t asking questions that you need answered, you are merely making a stand that you are against cochlear implants, although subtle.
aren’t you doing the same thing here too, punkybrewster? :P
The “ability” to communicate with the mainstream is a pretty handy tool, I agree. But the actual results, i.e., the quality of what you receive through the implant, with or without visual input, is a mixed bag. I’ve had to wade through a lot of mundane dreck to get to the few jewels. Pretty much like any other communication channel. Agree with you about the need for early language input, and that can be in both ASL and amplified spoken English. Language is the key, period.
This blog here didn’t make my ideologue detector go off … not every blog has a profound and earth-shaking purpose. Compared to some of his earlier comments, Chris’s recent blogs have been pretty mild, wouldn’t you agree? I can really understand the point he’s trying to make, though. If you’ve received a lot of pleasure and delight from music, as many of us have, you don’t want to take a chance on losing something that you love forever. A lot of potential implantees want to keep the residual hearing that they do have, limited as it may be, for that exact reason.
actually, I was hoping that it would be understood that the parents have the right to decide what’s best for their children.
If that means it’s example of enforcing an ideology to you, then i don’t know what to say to you. I really don’t know if the deaf community (institutional) is a good path to raise a child, I mean take a good look at the obvious examples (ahem RLM ahem brian riley ahem). I know I can only hope that I do the right thing and i’m liable to make a lot of mistakes. cheers.. here’s to you. =)
what abt non-institutional deaf community? :) yes, there are many ASL using deaf people who didn’t grow up attending residential schools, including me.
btw, brian riley is hearing. questionable mental health strikes indiscriminately so don’t blame it on the deaf community. ;)
I’ve had a couple friends ask me if I’d get a CI. I say no. I get along fine with my hearing aids. and I’m not too crazy about the whole surgical procedure, what if it doesn’t work? Then I’m really completely deaf. I think not.
the part that got to me the most was when your brother said that the CI screws up the music. I don’t think I can handle that, I know how my favorite artists sound, i love it when i can say, I know who that is, especially if it’s a new song that I haven’t heard before.
I just need clarification–even though I can hear now, particularly with my hearing aids. If i were ever to get a CI, would I have to relearn how things sound? I can only imagine the challenges of that.
Yes, you would have to re-code your brain to work with the implant.
i can understand your fear, it’s perfectly normal and to be expected. The thing you have to remember and what chris obviously doesn’t understand, is that things take time. The first few months after implantation your mind WILL fall back on itself and say “What the fck did you do to me?!” and the sound will be strange.
After time and work, your brain will start to make use of the gaps that you did not use with hearing aids. For me, personally, music is clearer, more definite and is more rich. I can follow along with the lyrics without having to read them first.
This is NOT a cure-all, this is a whole new way of listening…. after 6 to 8 months things will sound better and more familiar. you just have to work with it…. you can’t drink slim fast and expect miracles if you don’t exercise along with it.
Was born deaf, so I never really know what I was missing RE: music. I got implanted in 2002. I hated the way everyone sounded from the minute I was “activated”(hate that term). It took me a year for my brain to rewire the new information.
Now, I really love my music. It sounds so much better than it did before with hearing aid. So I think it is helpful for one to enjoy music with CI if you weren’t born deaf.
I never heard the harmonica in “You Don’t Know How It Feels” by Tom Petty till then.
you want great sounds?
listen to this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gakeQgQ4Tgg
Candy Dulfer: Lily Was here.
To be honest with you, there is only one song I know and I wonder how it sounds like with hearing aid or CI. Perhaps you can tell me… The song is “Happy Birthday to You.” ;)
Hi Katherine!
It seems we both use the same name and I’m surprised DeafDC would let something like that to happen.
Unlike you, I have no absolute interest for music. I avoid wearing hearing aids as much as I can when growing up before I tossed them out during teen years. It’s just a distraction for me.
Back then, I went after musicians with good looks. It’s the least I can do LOL I remember I had the hots for Menudo and how I loved their dances. I had posters of them on every wall in my bedroom ;-)
same here. i was told i have too much hearing. that it would basically do nothing for me or damage what i have. no thank you! but even the risk that music could sound different would have scared me off. thats just something i can’t go through!
Ah, Billy Joel rocks! I grew up with his music and begging friends to write down lyrics. Even as clear as he sounds, I couldn’t understand the words unless they were memorized or right in front of me.
My deaf and hard of hearing kids have it easy today– one click of the mouse and they’ve got the lyrics in front of them and on Ipods!
I used to be a Billy Joel fan, particularly because of one song, “We Didn’t Start the Fire.” I memorized most of the song by heart. He is pretty easy to follow once you memorize the lyrics.
I thought this was an interesting observation:
“If his mainstream experience was anything like mine, he got through it by blending in as much as possible. Keep living your life that way, and sooner or later your entire personality becomes a survival skill. And while ASL can offer you many things, invisibility isn’t one of them. So… live and let live. From that perspective, ASL isn’t much of an option.”
You too?? Good grief… my exposure to Billy Joel really started in high school — my journalism advisor had a poster on the wall with the lyrics to “We Didn’t Start the Fire” — I stared at that thing every day for three years.
We didn’t start the fire
It was always burning
Since the world’s been turning
We didn’t start the fire
No we didn’t light it
But we tried to fight it
As for the mainstreaming observation — that is interesting. I didn’t bother trying to blend in — I just did what I wanted to do. I was on two sports teams and worked for the school newspaper and lit magazine. I really think the experience of mainstreaming is largely based on individual personality. Me, I’m outgoing, talkative (no comments from the peanut gallery!), and very rarely shy in most situations. I was always comfortable around hearing people, even as a kid — it never bothered me. Some of the other deaf kids at school, though, rarely ever interacted with their hearing peers, and I always felt like they were shortchanging themselves. But that’s just me.
Funny you talk about that song… that song “We Didn’t Start the Fire” video starred Marlee Matlin!
Really? I didn’t know this! I gotta look it up on youtube…
Yup. She also signs a very old sign that’s profane. Very interesting. :)
I Googled it but can only find videos that were made by history students as a project for class… not the original video…
the video “We Didn’t Start the Fire”, starred with Marlee Matlin!!
We didnt Start the Fire video starred Marlee Matlin!
echo? (puts sensitivity lvl on 12)
LOL…for some reason my computer said I was not able to put comment on there and I had to try 2 more times!! No sensitivity here! Just thought I’d put some input about Billy Joel’s video with Marlee Matlin.
haha yeah sometimes the blog bugs… the sensitivity i’m referring to is the settings on my BTE. =)
I am not particularly objective when rating music witih my CI. I am just grateful I can hear it at all.
I recently attended a young soloist concert at the Kennedy Center. One of the performances was a violin and it sounded beautiful. However, I wondered if I heard it in its true form based on my perception. And if this violinist’s music was exponentially better to the hearing ear.
I do not think it is necessarily the digital coding of a device, but how you train your brain to hear the input and process the information. One person’s analysis of music is not necessarily going to be similar to someone else’s, considering the different MAP strategies in the CI.
“One person’s analysis of music is not necessarily going to be similar to someone else’s”
I think you nailed it on the head.
I don’t think I’d worry about whether you heard the violin in its “true form” or if it would have sounded better if you were hearing. Two people with identical audiograms could listen to the same solo performance and have widely varying opinions as to whether or not it was good. I have a good friend who was a music major and played bassoon (I assume that means she liked the instrument). I was also a music major, but there were plenty of times a bassoon reminded me of an…..expulsion of bodily gas into the air. :)
I think the conflict occurs when you have experienced music through two different methods (for lack of a better term), like in Warren’s case: natural hearing ability vs. a CI. If you have only ever experienced music through your CI, then I think you are hearing it in its true form. You thought it sounded beautiful. Great! (The hearing guy sitting next to you probably hated it, was upset at his girlfriend for dragging him there, and would rather be at a Korn concert.)
And speaking of conflict (and Korn), I remember experiencing conflict in a different way: I enjoyed a particular Korn song, and then I saw them perform it with the lyrics projected behind them…and suddenly I didn’t like the song as much anymore…
Oh well.
Go on enjoying your music!
We must do something to make illegal for the health insurance companies and state Medicaid agencies to pay for the cochlear implant surgery.
Being deaf is not health-related or medicinal issue.
Health insurance and state Medicaid entitlement coverages ought to focus on the issue of public health and well-being of individual involved.
Cochlear implant surgery is not really a necessity for the matter of survival.
More cochlear implant surgeries cause more skyrocketing rates within health insurance coverage which is not the health-related issue. It is definitely a luxury stuff.
I am appalled to learn that one of Gallaudet sociology professor aged at 64, have the recent CI surgery. What for????? Why should the Gallaudet University pay the health insurance coverage for CI surgery? That is not a logical approach to spend hard-earning health insurance coverage on just non-related health issue like the CI surgery.
I DO NOT HAVE ANY PROBLEMS WITH ANYONE DEAF OF LEGAL AGE HAVING CI SURGERY OUT OF THEIR OWN POCKETS OR FROM THE FOUNDATION/CHARITABLE ORGANIZATIONS.
We should file the legal action against the federal and state governments for promoting audism (state-sanctioned infanticide/linguism/linguicide) against deaf people in general.
Where is the official language policy within the U.S. and state governments for embracing the American Sign Language (ASL) as a protected language for minority-speaking people????? That is the time for us to get busy with the passage of legislation to solidify our standings as one of cultural and linguistic minority.
The cost of CI surgeries altogether could provide thousandths of kids with excellent health insurance coverages. That is about the logics of monetary spendings on numbers of kids together than just very few CI surgeries.
The manual communication (ASL) in deaf educational settings are very practical and effective than oral-mandated settings. One deaf teacher could teach 15 to 18 kids as compared to five professionals handling the same ratio of kids in numbers.
What the CI installation within deaf people will accomplish? Just an ability to hear music?? I know Bill Joel who he is. I just know his ex-wife, Christine Brinkley. Do you know any ASL visualists (signers, poets and performers) so far?
Robert L. Mason (RLM)
RLMDEAF blog
whooooo-weee!
Thanks RLM, thanks for helping me decide on whether to implant my child with a CI (if s/he) was born deaf. OH man… I can’t thank you enough… cuz YOU and what you just wrote is a PRIME example of why I’d consider implanting my children. Because if you are a representative of the deaf community at large.. yer doing a wonderful job.
/sarcasm off
Mason, it’s not your decision……. go worry about something else.
Punky, I think you and I know RLM represents nobody but himself. RLM certainly doesn’t speak for me! That is like saying YOU represent ALL of the other oralists.
I understand that you love the CI. That’s great. I’m happy for you, but be aware, it does not work for EVERYONE, and that has been the point of the deaf community all along. And to deny that imho, shows your own biases as well.
okay fine….
there’s only one way to find out if it works for you, (actually 2) first of which is to have it actually implanted and work with it. lastly, the audiologists can determine if a CI will work for you.
My biggest peeve is when someone like RLM comes in and tries to advocate his ideals by denying MY rights to choose (as a parent or a person) that’s when it becomes my problem.
Now, adding a little reality…. for some reason no matter how much good you put into your efforts the negative blow backs trump them. I’m no saint…. but none of you are going to remember me for my words of wisdom or words of reality (if you can consider it that) …. people are going to remember me as being a loud mouth on dcdeaf. That in mind, I’m sure you are the beautiful rose of the garden and evidently an intelligent one, but I’m not so sure i’m going to remember that as the years go by, i’m going to remember an ignorant deaf-nazi named RLM.
If you seem to know everything and are so comfortable standing up there on your soapbox - why are you so bitter?
RLM — just out of curiosity, would you say cataract surgery is also a luxury? Cuz, really, being able to see is no big deal, just like being able to hear, right?
Interesting you bring that up, because I am in the process of filing a lawsuit because the insurance company is making it next to impossible for me to receive a bilateral implant (this will be my third over the course of 20 years).
The insurance company has denied my request for a cochlear implant. The policy is that they will cover cochlear implants up to the age of 19.
I don’t think it’s a luxury. I am hoping to get a bilateral implant with the hopes to enhance my hearing potential.
oops
What if you have arthritis in your hip? If a doctor said, “Hey, I can make it easier for you. There’s an artificial joint you can have, an artificial hip that would improve mobility?”
The only way I might consider getting a CI is if my vision does get worse. I don’t consider it a luxury. I think it’s a necessity. If they can’t come up with something that’ll prevent my vision from getting worse & it does, in fact *knock wood,* decline. I’d consider getting a CI. I’d much rather be able to hear, if I can’t see at all. I don’t want to be the kind of person that relies on someone else to help me get around if my vision goes. I think CI are helpful. It’s not just to “listen to music,” though music is a GREAT thing, It’s the one thing that brings people together. It helps people get around just a little easier.
I agree! Although I am personally in no danger of losing any vision. But if I was..
Yeah, I see your point. From what I’ve read, it seems that you still have some hearing that you can benefit with. Truly, it is up to the individual and a personal choice. I get aggravated when Mr. X tells Mr. Y that he shouldn’t get one, and vice versa.
Like how we choose our personality and identity, you should feel free to decide whether or not a CI is for YOU. Not based on the general consensus.
Hello Robert:
“Do you know any ASL visualists (signers, poets and performers) so far?”
Sure I do. Manny Hernandez, Peter Cook, etc. I think it’s a question of what we can relate to. I remember, for example, a friend of mine spending half the day trying to explain Pearl Jam to me. It didn’t work. My hearing had been gone for a couple of years by the time they became popular. In theory I understood, but it wasn’t the same. The lyrics weren’t lyrics anymore. They were poetry at best. The music transforms everything. Without that, you’re looking at a fundamentally different thing.
Then again I once tried to explain Jimmy Buffet’s “Margaritaville” to two friends who were born deaf (no CI). One had no interest whatsoever. The other took to it immediately but transformed the lyrics into a style of “performance” ASL that was as hypnotic to watch as the song was to listen to back when I could still hear. So. What to make of that? Can people “get it” even if they can’t hear it?
I think the same thing goes (albeit visually) for Peter Cook and Manny Hernandez. The more ASL you know/have, the better you’re able to appreciate them. Without ASL, or with even intermediate ASL, is the experience of watching them the same? Maybe… maybe not.
Y’know, the interesting thing about Peter Cook? He went to Clarke. We had a fascinating conversation about that — I love meeting and reuniting with fellow “Clarkies” as I like to call them (went to their summer camp, so was never a student there).
RLM, you scare the (BEEP) out of me. I need to go change my pants.
While at Spring Camp Cheerio, there was one 8 year old kid with the CI (his mom’s currently the president of NC AG Bell). He was implanted at 3 or 4 years old. I asked him if he considered himself to be deaf. He quickly said “NO!” which didn’t surprise me. It would be a safe bet to say this kid identifies better with hearing people than with deaf people.
Legally, deafness IS a medical issue. After all, I’d like all my five senses to work as well as possible. It’s always nice to hear my lovely lady whispering into my ear “that was so good.”
To force parents to learn ASL is like forcing them to learn Spanish when their mother tongue is English.
Where’s the protection of Hebrew? Where’s the protection of Spanish? Where’s the protection of Gibby-Gappy (my newly formed gibberish language). :-P
Right on, Robert
I find this is a big joke about CI device itself that people believe the big sucker Medical doctors / professionals who are telling a big lie to talk about a cure and miracle to hear and making the big bucks from insurance while other people ’s illness of cancer, aids, and many severe health that the insurance refused to pay their health care that needs to be take care of. It s very outrageous for them to ignore their health needs that people dont think twice. I rather insurance pay me when I am having a very serious illness that has nothing to do with my deafness. Deafness is not illness at all. It does not making a sense for anyone to waste money from insurance while they dont hear everything.
ALL I am seeing that they think of music sounds and speech are the most important thing for hearing people’s sake only that keeps Deaf children away from other Deaf children, American Sign Language, and Deaf community by AUDISM people or parents with a very negative view of deafness that should not to have a waste money on CI itself for a stupid reason. CI doesnt make you hear everything that is so pointless for me to have it because I knew I wont be able to understand everything like I did wearing HA. CI just make it more high sounds that you get the hits in their brains to make more headaches. It doesnt make any sense anymore. That is not healthy at all.
Our deaf ears is very sensitive while MEDICAL had been damaged anything that makes a person become total DEAF after CI or any medications did that. Doctors or Audiologist doesnt know everything as usual. Deafness cannot be the same level of deafness or hearing loss for every deaf/latened deaf person. That is not healthy at all.
That s wrong for the parents to make their decision to invade Deaf babies/Children s property. That is reminding me of dictators who wants to control and power over our deafness.
Deaf is not threatened to our lives if you mind. Thats the way we are and our hands to communicate with or without orally speaking in our own choices.
Someone kept saying it s about music sounds and speech that they want to have CI itself for that reason. it doesnt make any sense to me anymore after all many deaf children can hear in their own natural sounds or feels the vibration when it comes out aloud that is all it matters to me. Most of us have our own Deaf natural abilities and adaptation that is very important to all Deaf children. People out there dont have any faiths in us. That’s their issue so however people with their own artificial rights to abuse the Deaf children s lives that is wrongdoing to have the forcible or conformority toward Deaf children s innocent. That is not a good responsibility for the parents who thinks they have the right to do this to their children.
I can still speak without device that I no longer wear it anymore because there are still the barrier of communication by hearing people who do not meet in the half way so therefore why should I m doing this for hearing people s sake while they have no respect for us deaf people or deaf community from a start. They violated the ADA laws for years and years that has not changed a bit.
Deaf people have their rights to live in this society not just for hearing people only that you must know this.
For petes sake, Life is too short to damage our Deaf ears that is even more disabled. Deaf will be always deaf as is forever. Face the Deaf Reality. For your info, I would careless if an adult want to have CI then fine with me since they ll have to deal with it. I have had enough of crapola going on with doctors/audiologist in this society that blames on ASL , Deaf people, and Deaf community after all AUDISM people with a very negative view of deafness who lied and destroyed the image in our Deaf community that will work together with hearing people with a very positive outlook.
So therefore, where is Deaf children s human rights and civil rights to be protected. Sighs! People dont care and are too self centered to make Deaf children to do the dirty work alone. Jeez!
Peace! ;)
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“Pure and Simple Natural Honest in Total Communication of love bonds between Deaf and Hearing people in this diverse world.” [b]Quote Fact of Sweetmind’s Beliefs in Natural Method.[/b] It tells you that is two ways of street for Hearing and d/Deaf people.
Found the video. Marlee is the daughter in the family. We Didn’t Start The Fire. One of the worst BJ song ever, IMO. It’s designed for Mtv. I like his “Glass Houses” album and before that.
MikeS
Ha ha, saw it! The nose-thumbing sign was profane? Really? Side-note: Marlee Matlin is a very cool looking hippie, dontcha think? (-:
Wow, that WAS awesome… that’s the first thing I’ve ever liked Marlee Matlin in!
*dancing*
We didn’t start the fire….
I remember seeing that video 15+ years ago and never knew that was Marlee! Very cool.