Your response continues more of the division I noted.

“[I]t’s really mostly Deaf people against Fernandes” not only implies that it is a clear-cut case of one group of people against another entity, it excludes certain people from participating in the views you ascribe to them.

“There are more deaf and hard of hearing people than Deaf people. That’s a fact.” If you mean there are less people who sign and regularly participate in deaf-orientated events, I’d agree with you. But why be so bullheaded about segregation, about divesting the right to opine regardless of self-definition?

There are certainly, in your definition, lower-case d deaf people who wish to see Dr. Fernandes resign. And there are certainly upper-case D deaf people who don’t. Painting the situation as a division between segments in the deaf community excludes these people.

What we see here are mostly Deaf people who are doing the protesting. They are mostly the ones who raised ire against Fernandes. Are you saying this is not case? I am focusing on the Gallaudet community and those associated with the protest (e.g CSUN, NTID, Rochester, Riverside, etc).

Allison, the Deaf community spent 30 years or so in trying to get everybody to accept the definition of “D”eaf to mean those who are culturally deaf whether one is deaf or hard of hearing. They are the ones who wanted and insisted that demarcation. I am not divesting anybody’s right to give their own opinion of self-definition. The fact of the matter at hand is that there ARE two camps. There are those who are Deaf and those who are not. And in each camp their views and perceptions are remarkably much more delineated than it is not. We’re talking some 30 million deaf and hard of hearing people in the United States to that of 900,000 Deaf people in the United States.

Allison, if you want to be intellectually honest here you would need to acknowledge the population differences among those who are deaf and hard of hearing in one segment of society compared to the Deaf segment of society is rather a yawning chasm between the two. Yes, certainly, some of lower case “d” deaf people do want to see Fernandes resign. Then again it could be most likely many more lower case “d” deaf who do or would support Fernandes. However, everybody sees this as a Deaf protest first and nothing more.

“However, everybody sees this as a Deaf protest first and nothing more.”

This is a correct statement. There is a nasty undercurrent, sometimes explicitly stated, that Jane is not Deaf enough.

The real issue is whether Gallaudet is going to be an inclusive environment for all Deaf/deaf individuals or just an enclosed environment for “D” deaf folks only.

Let me ask this hypothetical question. Supposing that there is this historically black school that, until recently, was run by whites although 99 percent of the student population was made up of dark black skinned African Americans. Well, as they say, the students revolted and a light-skinned coffee black man was selected as the president’s school. The student body remained the same. Then now, a light skinned coffee black woman was selected as president and the students rise up in revolt saying that the candidate was not black enough because she wasn’t dark skinned or show other characteristics of black culture.

Is this fair? Is this reasonable? Is this what we want to say to the world — we don’t want any outsiders running our school?

I realize that this is going to be controversial, but I think this is a fair thought experiment and a lot of the answers will reflect their stances on the Fernandes controversy.

I agree with you, Alison and Bobby. I stopped using the “D” a long time ago, and I don’t teach “Deaf Culture”. I teach ABOUT the deaf community.

I place the emphasis on social networks, that deaf people tend to generate towards their own, and most of them explore options. I tell my students that from my experience, a lot of deaf people end up using some kind of manual communication. I tell them many mainstreamed students tend to graviate towards some deaf-serving population such as RIT/NTID, Gallaudet, etc, and develop a stronger sense of who they are through learning ASL and interacting with other deaf people.

I don’t believe in the D/deaf thing. It is divisive and reductive. I avoid using this particular construction in discussions.

I traveled to DC over the weekend and spoke with several faculty. I received firsthand stories of their experience with Fernandes. I am seeing the picture more clearly. Indeed, it’s sad and I encourage you to collect FIRSTHAND information before making comments. Faculty represents the university. Faculty’s 82% no confidence is a powerful statement and not good news for Fernandes.

Again, when I read anyone’s comments, I need to think if it’s coming from FIRSTHAND knowledge and if it’s a reliable source of information.

Please think carefully before you say anything and try not to include emotions in it.

My final thought after talking to several Gallaudet University faculty: Fernandes is not ready to become the 9th President.

Wendy A. Dannels

Excuse me, Joseph… I am Deaf, a member of the Deaf community and I do not support the protest. To say that “the Deaf community” is against Fernandes is wrong. I’m not surprised that some Gallaudetians have had bad experiences with JKF. So what? There are two (or more) sides to every story. Bottom line is, the BoT chose JKF, and theirs are the only opinions that count here. I know the protestors think by screaming real loud and having a major tantrum in the store, they will get what they want. Get a clue - this is not how adults take care of business.

The problem with your stand, lady, is that have always avoided to respond and have never faced the real issues of criticism against Fernandes. You always talk about critical thinking, but you don’t have a clue what it means.

You cannot come up with any reason whatsoever, why the deficiencies and inadequacies of Jane Fernandes should not be counted as disqualifying factors for being a good president.

Speaking of bad experiences……

if i were you, i would worry about my career than how much money fernandes will get..someone mention in an earlier post that we DO NOT have the authority to elected a college president…. its true and it make sense. think about it. An overwhelming number of college students are admitted to college each semester…shall we change our college president every semester for a fair vote among students???

College Student - I understand what you mean. It’s caused me pause more than once myself. Of course, the selection of a president of a university is a duty reserved for those in governance positions, contrary to what Testing_the_truth says. It is NOT a democracy.

However, surely, you can’t expect students to sit quietly by when they believe the Board of Trustees is out of touch with the community (in fact, recent reports have two trustees publicly implying that deaf signers are dumb) and chose a candidate that they believe would continue the same spirit of paternalism.

When people believe injustice has been done, then I wholeheartedly support their right to speak up, regardless of whether they have the power to change that act of injustice. I’d hope you do too.

I did not say the pres. selection is democracy. I said in a democracy the overwhelming majority should be respected.

If a president is selected who is unacceptable for an overwhelming majority, then the selection contradicts democratic principles. If a president is selected who is accepted by the same overwhelming majority, then the selection is harmonizes with democratic principles.

former professor,

And mob rule is against democratic principles as well.

Overwhelming majority are against her? Excuse me, a vocal minority does not a majority make.

Alison,

Don’t bring up unsubstantiated reports as evidence.

Whatever the problems are with the BOT they are not in the interest of destroying Galladuet. That is the last thing they are trying to do. If they are out of touch, well to be honest with you the vast majority of BOT members in the vast majority of college campuses are usually busy dealing with their own work. If you wish to contact them about school related information, you can.

The principle matter of the BOTs are to choose people to run the school for the interest of the school.

Like 82% of faculty?? Is this a minority for you? Bahh. I have to laugh thickly on your denial of seeing the overwhelming fact in the opinion of the overwhelming majority.

Allison..

If the BoT is out of touch with the community, what does that means?? Are you referring to the students or community? BoT supposed to run the school not for the interest of the community… I understand your standpoint of 2 members of BoT implying the “deaf and dumb” comments, we are not alone. Its happens in every society, we have people who oppose in the kind of work they do after they honor the conduct and ethics of their job…If student wants to change BoT, then students must try harder to learn and finish school and run for BoT. Let us prove them wrong. BoT is a bunch of old crap who haven’t had sex in who knows how long! Of course they are out of touch with reality!

Testing the Truth/A former college professor (who are the same person): I agree with you: it’s not a democracy, but all the same, a majority opinion needs to be respected.

Still, you did say, “We are the overwhelming majority who oppose Fernandes. In democracy, an overwhelming majority has greater weight, than a dwarf minority, those who support her. Sorry, that is how it works!” Which seems to say that just because there are a greater number of people who want Dr. Fernandes to resign than those who don’t, the decision should be reversed. I disagree on that point.

College Student: so your solution is for people to wait until they are appointed to the Board of Trustees to change things around? Alright, even as unlikely as that sounds, let’s suppose we take that avenue. What happens in the meantime? (and btw, my use of “community” refers to every person involved with Gallaudet - students, alumni, faculty, staff, parents of Clerc Center students, recent grads with a Gallaudet degree looking for a job).

Yes I am, it is not secret.

I did not say that. Please, resort to statements I made, otherwise you are arguing with yourself. Thanks.

You DID say that. It’s a direct quotation. See comment #26972.

>> because there are a greater number of people who want Dr. Fernandes to resign than those who don’t, the decision should be reversed

I did not say that, it was your own fantasy. So please, do tear apart your own opinion as you wish! But don’t blame me for hurting yourself. ;))))))))))))

Pretty snarky and dishonest for a person to use different aliases in the same forum.

Allison..
We sit and wait. I dont have power to change the BoT. However, we still have the power to freely express our speech to the BoT.

Do the BoT have monthly meeting like a school board to allow public input? They should if Kendall and Mssd is included.

Life isn’t going to be good all the times. And its not going to be bad all the times, either. Some people who did post their comment probably are graduate looking for a job.

Instead of trying to find a completely deaf person to begin their president term, work on requesting better technology. Its not the IKJ or JF fault that the graduate can not get a job. Its the student fault for refusing to accept the technology that would change their world. We should fear nothing!

In the interest of having a fair and factual discussion here: testing-the-truth you should know that the 82% number you are using doesn’t mean all that you think it does.
See there are 222 (plus or minus) faculty with voting rights at Gallaudet. Only those people were allowed at last Monday’s meeting.
Of those voting memebers only 168 attended. A majority to be sure but not all.
Of those 168, 134 voted for JK’s resignation. That is where the 82% comes from (134/168).
82% of the ATTENDING faculty which really only makes up 62% of the entire voting faculty.
And although it is still true that 62% is a majority. It sure doesnt look as impressive as 82% does.
Oh of course, how do I know? I was there.

Also, an interesting note is that 168 participated in the vote . It went down to 126 when they got to Motion F. That represents barely half of the faculty population which is 221.

Out of 221 faculty members, 53 didn’t show up because they couldn’t or wouldn’t want to.

I think the ratio has always been constant around 70:30 (maybe even 60:40 at times) on campus of those who are against JKF.

I would think that given the constant heat and light the pro- and anti-Fernandes posters have generated on this issue, it would have been a prudent idea for a lot of dissatisfied faculty members to abstain from voting by not showing up at all. Probably disgusted with both sides, if I’m correct.

Hmm.. sounds like a recent Presidental Election when only 51% of the 70% or so elected voted for President Bush.

See the result.

I believe it speaks for itself.

So the onus is on the 53 faculty members that couldn’t be bothered to show up?

And there’s the assumption that the president is doing a poor job. Last I checked, about 30 percent still believe that he’s doing a good job.

Exactly. It says a lot.

In America, only people who vote are counted.

If you don’t vote…

I know Gallaudet is not a democracy, but if you’re gonna abide by democratic principles…

Gallaudet isn’t a democracy by any means, so the faculty votes aren’t binding in any way.

“Shared governance” at this point is a fantasy.

“Shared governance” is a fantasy. I agree.

It shouldn’t be a fantasy. THAT is the point.

the point about the stats is that if you want to be seen as playing fair and using truth then you should use the true numbers and not misrepresent as “82% of the faculty” which you know is not true. this damages your credibility.
oh and shared governance does not work for a University. the notion that faculty, staff, alum, and students should have an equal vote in choosing the leadership of the University is simply a silly utopian idea. if you acknowledge that it is a fantasy then lets move on, accept the BOT’s decision and start fixing the problems at Gally instead of destroying the institution from the inside with this prolonged mud slinging campaign. this is what mature adults do. accept things they do not like but can not change and find ways to work to better life for all involved. the adults are doing a real disservice to the students. IMHO

I am interested in this. Pray continue.

Yes, Gallyprof made a good point. What kind of evidence do you want to hear? Qualitative, Quantitative, or Both

I’ll pick both. Below is for your additional information

Data Types:
Qualitative vs. Quantitative

Qualitative’s advantage: allows interaction with respondents and for in-depth probing of issues and yields great detail in response

Qualitative’s disadvantage: unreliable predictors of the population and should not be used to identify the best of the possibilities

Quantitative’s advantage: results are statistically reliable and projectable to the target market segment

Quantitative’s disadvantage: issues are only measured if they are known prior the beginning of the survey

Ok.
And this is a problem how…….?

I mean, sure it is annoying for someone to give a lecture to people, but she had a right to be angry. Replacing a goal post is an expensive and unneccesary action, you have a bunch of roudy kids who need to be talked to like kids if that is how they are going to act.

Secondly, she made the football team do community service. Stop the presses! She actively punished a group for something they may have been responsible for! Oh god why!?

All you can prove is that she acted as a responsible administrator to deal with university problems.
And all it proves is that self-entitled students at Gallaudet are protesting because she isnt a friendly face to everyone.

Actually, I think it is a problem to punish a group of people for something that it can’t be proved they were responsible for. Just a little thing called innocent until proven guilty. And lecturing the entire student community about the actions of a smaller group is not an effective way to encourage students to act like adults (I might add that the university had previously announced the goal posts would be replaced in the spring).

My second example comes from last spring semester. A group of faculty (myself included) was asked to review the university’s response to the 2005 MSA report on Gallaudet and to report our recommendations to JKF. One of the harshest criticisms in the MSA report was the lack of funding for the library (this had been an issue in the 2001 MSA report as well). MSA strongly recommended a substantial increase to the library budget, and the faculty committee pushed very hard for JKF to accept the MSA recommendation. Our library resources are terrible and the building itself has holes in the roof. When it rains, the archives are damaged. The library needs a huge infusion of money, but JKF refused to authorize despite the strong recommendation of the faculty. This is just one of MANY examples of how JKF ignores faculty input. Universities are structured on the principle of shared governance, which means faculty and administrators should make key decisions together. To ignore faculty recommendations produces resentment on the part of the faculty.

Another JKF’s weak leadership skills comes from a faculty forum a few weeks ago. At some point, JKF was asked to talk about what she has done since last May to build a better relationship with the student community. She began be explaining how SBG refused to work with her and, according to her, threatened to fire any SBG representative who agreed to serve on her advisory committee. She spent about 5 minutes on that. Now, it was common knowledge that SBG refused to recognize her selection as president by sending a representative, and it was simply bad politics to start responding to the question that way. It made her look as if she was blaming SBG for the fact that she has not accomplished anything. Why be negative and divisive? We wanted to hear what she had done, so why not say something positive.

Lest you think that this is a small and insignificant thing, let me again emphasize that we are talking about leadership qualities. And with JKF, we are talking about a pattern of small incidents that add up to an intense feeling on the part of students AND faculty that she is patronizing and dismissive. A leader knows how to bring people together, not push them away and apart.

My third and final example. Since last May, JKF has not made any effort to reach out to faculty and ask for support. She has never called a faculty or student forum on her own initiative. In the past three weeks, she has spoken exclusively to the press. She has called the protestors terrorists and anarchists. Her choice of inflammatory rhetoric and her lack of effort to speak to the university community through anything but hostile memos is what convinced me that she cannot lead this university. I stayed out of the protest and kept an open mind about JKF for a long time. Though I saw problems, I felt that it was my responsibility to support the university by accepting the BOT’s decision. But after the past two weeks, my mind is made up. We need a leader who is proactive and can calm this situation down, not one who escalates it. And if you’re not convinced, Johan, well, you don’t work at Gallaudet. Walk a mile in our shoes before you call us self-entitled.

Ok, there ya go. You have two examples. Why did you go with meaningless ones first? When you could have made a point much earlier.

About the library. Bad if true, for the sake of my ignorance at this moment I will claim that as a point against JKF. I will look into it and see what is there.

The other point is that of her use of language, yes she should not have used such language. It is divisive and inflammatory. I am not interested in the security of JKF in the least, if she is innefective then she should be gone BUT I am against the protest for its actions.
IF you are a professor, what did you do while the selection was going on? You have a voice in your department meetings, was nothing said?

What I mean by self-entitled stands, not many private universities recieve 70% of its revenue from the government and the notion that football players of all people cant be brought down a peg is pathetic.

Seriously, is there a moderator on this forum? The spam gets annoying.

I came here to discuss what I see as a hearing person in DC watching this protest. I cant identify with the students because I see very few wrongs that have to righted that call for such a protest. You have a problem, you follow the channels to speak to people and have grievances there.
You do not shut down a campus building, verbally harass a current president or one who is coming into power, you dont lock down a campus by blocking the gates, you dont ever shut down the educational facilities to make a point.
This goes for deaf and hearing people. I am a very liberally minded person, but I have no patience for bullshit.
IF there is something to be solved, fix it. Dont make a mess of somethign because you dont get what you want.

Those students HAVE been accomodated. They have been given oral interpreters. They have had the opportunity to learn ASL.

Why are they not taking advantage of this opportunity? I don’t understand. If a student really wants to be with a professor who talks (speaks orally), then why a Gallaudet professor? Is it fair that a professor talks for one student, and the rest of the class is left out?

ASL should be the DEFAULT mode here at Gallaudet, and students whould be given accommodations if their skills in ASL are not up to par. If they are not interested in learning ASL.. then, why are they attending Gallaudet? What can they get out of the experience that there isn’t at a hearing college?

And let’s say that professors accomodate those students who want simcom and oral education. What happens to the students who sign ASL? Who wants to communicat in ASL? Hire an ASL interpreter? How ridlicious. It’s Gallaudet university. People sign ASL at Gallaudet. If those students wanted to go to classes with an interpreter, they wouldn’t be at Gallaudet!

The ever so “why are you here at Gallaudet for” response. I’m talking about the tendency of many to marginalize hard of hearing students.

You need to realize that new language acquisition among adults are notoriously slow. Going to 1 month of New Signers Orientation won’t make them fluent ASL or even plain old sign language signers. Of those who are slow at grasping ASL cannot fully participate as with the rest of the class. They do have the right to request oral interpreters, Cued Speech, FM loop, or whatever form to allow them to fully participate in the hope that perhaps such accomodation needs won’t be necessary.

Also, again there is no requirement that students be fluent in ASL in order to graduate.

What’s fair is that everybody be accomodated on an equal footing when it comes to communication access. This isn’t always the case. I know.

Exactly. They ARE being provided oral interpreters.

Meanwhile, is it okay to ignore those who want/need professors who sign ASL fluently?

And yes, it takes timeto learn ASL, and I am perfectly aware of that. I am even aware that not everybody can become really fluent in it, espeically later in life. However, there is a basic minimum that they can attain if they truly put the effort in it, instead of segerating themselves and hanging out with only oral deafies like themselves (yes, I’ve seen this happen). Then those same students complain that they are not “accepted”. In any society, any community there are certain hallmarks of belongingness, and ASL is a really important one, at least at Gallaudet. If you do not want to learn ASL

There’s SimCom. Then there’s a mixture of SEE/PSE or what have you. The visual communication is still there. Just that the style is different. If there’s communication, then there’s a feeling of “belongingness”.

“Belongingness” is accepting for who they are and not what they are. ASL is not the defining glue in all of this “belongingness” among the 30 million people with hearing loss in the United States. We are share one thing in common…hearing loss. We all understand to one degree and another on the various levels of communication hardships involved from very little to the extreme that we experience daily. ASL is a symbol of Deaf culture, which as you said really important in Gallaudet, but it not a symbol of “belongingness” when we see people marginalize those who sign or communicate other than ASL.

If you put a group of deaf and hh people in a room who either sign in ASL, SEE, or SimCom, and you will see that everybody can communicate with everybody else. That’s the feeling of “belongingness” and acceptance. It’s the respect for the person’s communication choice or signing style. That’s what I support.

Great. Now, what about an academic environment such as Gallaudet? Shouldn’t we have standards for language profiency there? We’re not talking about social hour or DPHH.

A system of communication that mixes two methods and loses a lot of information in translation should not be acceptable as an academic language.

Bottom line, WS, not everybody can become proficient and fluent in ASL when they are first exposed to it. It is just as equally impossible to expect every deaf/hh students that come into Gallaudet with substandard 4th or 5th grade English level to come out graduating from Gallaudet University to write at the expected graduate or doctorate English level. And we still see students have difficulty in English comprehension in the reading and writing just as there are those who have difficulty in comprehending in the signing and understanding pure ASL.

What do you expect, WS? Instant proficiency?

No I don’t. Read what I said above
“And yes, it takes timeto learn ASL, and I am perfectly aware of that. I am even aware that not everybody can become really fluent in it, espeically later in life. However, there is a basic minimum that they can attain if they truly put the effort in it..”

I also said this..

“I am not saying that studnets have to learn it overnight, and I support their right for services sucha s oral interpreters as they are learning the language. I understand completely. I even support professors who are new and want to learn ASL as they go along. I only would request that they use an interpreter.”

I am NOT saying that they should be exclued immediately if they don’t know ASL. I’m just saying, put a little grease in it and you’ll appreciate learing ASL later on, especially as Gallaudet is an unviersity that uses ASL.

But you are saying that you won’t accept a student’s preference for SimCom or even SEE or a mix thereof?

That’s what she appears to be saying.

Nope.

I did say that I don’t have a probllem using simcom or Signed English personally. I grew up using it and I still do when the situation requires it (socially, during DPHH, with my hearing family, etc:).

What I am saying that the student’s preference for simcom/SE/A mix thereof is perfectly fine for personal use, but if they are going to attend Gallaudet, they can only reasonably expect ASL to be used in the classrom and that if they want other accommodations, they will have to ask for it (ex; oral interpreter, Signed english), OR learn ASL!

To complain that the professor does not use simcom is just disingenious - why are they at Gallaudet after all, is my question.

I find it interesting that someone would actually request an interpreter for Signed English. Has that happened in reality?

I can see requests for an Oral interpreter, or Cued Speech, but not for SEE.

And at any rate, I do agree that the faculty all should know ASL, and if they don’t, they should be taking ASL courses. For those who are learning ASL, provide an ASL interpreter until the professor reaches a satisfactory level of competence.

For those who have CI’s and still want to use them, I think that’s where things turn sticky. I can see a situation where a CI user would want to go to Gallaudet, so s/he could become immersed in the culture, so s/he could learn the language, but at the same time, still retain the ability to use the implant.

Quite frankly, I don’t have the answers to that, and I think that issue is best left up to experts on Section 504 and ADA.

~ Deaf Pundit

Um, WS, you are still saying that the use of SimCom, SEE, a mix thereof is not allowed/accepted in classrooms. Mind the fact that not every student that walks into a classroom is fluent in ASL. Students, based on their backgrounds, would use SimCom/SEE/mixed in class today as they have done in the past while they continued to learn ASL along the way.

This is exactly a perfect example of marginalizing those who cannot sign as well as the rest of the students in class or around campus.

Thank you, WS, for that example.

I had no idea there is SimCom…how it define, feels like I used it all my life! What different does it make? You can mouth your words in ASL and in SEE/PSE and in Cued Speech. You dont need SimCom to understand how to say @#!@ you! If SimCom isn’t allow in the classroom, for halloween, I dress up like the girl on “The Ring” and poster girl on “Silence of the Lamb”, and stitch my mouth up like a crash test dummy!

Deaf Pundit, there is nothing to think here. It’s about the individual’s right to his or her choices regarding communication or even the use of CI and one uses it. Section 504 gives that power to the students by protecting his/her rights to equal access and participation at post-secondary institutions.

Let me tell you one story. This guy. He signed very much like SEE but talked while he signed almost like SimCom. Very deaf. Easily emotional when some idiot made fun of his talking. Very oral and loud as it was his habit. But extremely, extremely brilliant and smart when it came to the English language and the nuances of it. Heck, he’d put everybody here in DeafDC to shame. He was in Honors English and Honors classes where I went. We were all able to communicate well amongst ourselves in classes and understood what each of had to say regardless of how we signed though most of use a mix of signing and “talked” while we did our discussions. This guy, I believe, turned to be a proof-reader for some big name publishing company in New York.

I wasn’t interested in marginalizing those who couldn’t sign well (or very good for that matter) during my stay at Gallaudet. However, many students (and some faculty members) made a point to do just that.

Well. I would be interested in knowing what they would say about requiring the teacher to use their voice if a CI user requests it. I don’t know if that’s reasonable, particularly if the teacher’s deaf and doesn’t really have any intelligible speech. That’s what I’m focusing on.

I’m not focusing on the students’ signing. I don’t really care how they sign. If they want to sign English, fine. If they want to sign ASL, fine. My focus is on the teachers/professors’ ability to communicate with students spread all over the spectrum. I don’t know enough about Section 504 and ADA, so that’s why I wrote what I did above. I think I’ll ask around and answer my question anyway… :P

~ Deaf Pundit

Well, McConnell, I did try to make my viewpoint clear, but I can see that you only want to read what you want to read into my words.

I’ve told you time and time over again, refuting your claims that I want to exclude those who use different methods of communicate. I have no interest in marginalizing them.

I also have no interest in being used as an “example”, thank you very much. I am not interested in being a token “I told you so”. I am very turned off by that right now.

I’ve made my point clear many times. It is unfortunate you refuse to recognize that I’ve addressed your concerns, acknowledged them, and offered a possible solution.

I’m finished discussing with you.

To the others, thank you for your feedback, and I’ve learned something.

Bobby, your perfect world sounds a lot like my perfect world :-) I would also like to see every kind of deaf person at Gallaudet, as the one place where deaf people communicate freely and are accepted regardless of their language or mode of communication. When you say “embracing deaf culture,” do you mean “embracing ASL”? In my mind, Deaf culture and ASL are inseparable. You don’t have one without the other. People with hearing losses who are oral, cuers, English-signers, sim-com signers, etc., may or may not feel a part of Deaf Culture because of their language preferences. They may not have any particular investment in promoting ASL. The protestors have been saying that many GU professors do not sign well enough in ASL to teach a college-level class and be understood by someone who communicates exclusively in ASL and cannot understand sim-com. By implication, deaf students who communicate via English-based signing are getting their needs met, not the ASL signers. The protestors want ASL to be the language of instruction, and for professors and staff to pass proficiency tests in ASL. Everyone else (oral, cuers, etc.) can ask for an interpreter if they don’t understand ASL. Is that what you’re getting at?

And back to your original questions: JKF probably does not have the classic ASL deaf standpoint herself. Does it then follow that she is NOT able to understand the oppression experienced by classic ASL deaf, cannot empathize, and therefore cannot lead? I wonder if that’s what you’re implying.

Exactly, CE. Technology will someday when communication access will easily and seemlessly be the case between hearing, hard of hearing, deaf, and Deaf.

Correction:

Exactly, CE. Technology will someday help this problem. Communication access will easily and seemlessly be the case between hearing, hard of hearing, deaf, and Deaf. It wouldn’t matter if a deaf or hard of hearing choose his or her own communication preference.

Right, Bobby?

And still be the case in classes at Gallaudet University if such a technology exist? It wouldn’t matter if you signed ASL or speak or sign in SimCom in class? Right?

I cannot agree with this Nazi understanding of ‘technologization of the Deaf’. This is the concept of Fernandes, a militantly aggressive carving out of a ‘new order of Deaf people’ from a host mass of regular Deaf.

I don’t take too well with conspiracy theories well.

There are software and hardware being developed where ASL is recognized and translated into text or speech, and vice versa. This is the cross-cultural, cross-communication that would allow anybody and everybody to talk to whomever they want at anytime ….someday.

It is ironic that “former Gallaudet professor” would abhor to this technological advancement when you enjoy the fruits of what technology has given to deaf/hh people involving Sidekicks, VideoPhone, internet relay service on i711.com (for example), real time captioning, instant or on demand captioning (in the works) for videos or live tv shows where human element can be eliminated, communication device between deaf and hard of hearing, the internet, blogging, emails, vlogs, and so on. This is just barely the tip of the iceberg here on what technology could do to further create greater independency among deaf, Deaf and hard of hearing people. It’s about respecting other people choice and communication preferences.

A really ironic statement there, former professor.

Technology is here to serve us, and not to rule over us. Your insipid view about the gene technology make me laugh. You fantasized about micro chips embedded in ones skull to watch tv and communicate. Man, you are one sick techno-worshipper. Your view about technology is dangerous to humanity, too. Period.

No, not to rule over us but to give deaf/hh/Deaf people total independency rather than to rely on another human being for help. Isn’t that what Deaf people want? A self 24/7 service that they can access to anybody, in any language, anywhere in the world (and vice versa back to the deaf person) without the need of human intervention while using their own language (ie ASL), and STILL maintain and keep their Deaf culture completely intact and keep it growing!

No implantation. No computer chips in the brain, eye, body, or orofice. Not about gene technology. Not about stem cells.

Zoltan, do your *math* here on what I’ve been saying regarding independency who do not want cochlear implant, hearing aids or hearing loss restoration.

Unless, of course, you ARE against total independency without human intervention while maintaining Deaf culture at the same time.

Speaking of insipid…..

You talked about sci-fi fantasies about gizmos you want to build in into other people’s skull. Don’t deny. Your ignorant adulation at the altars of technology, you don’t even understand, is frightening to say the least. It is the same inhumane attitude we know well from the 20th century.

Er…um…show to the people the links where I say that I *want* to build into people skulls. Very nice. The cutting edge of conspiracy theory here.

If you have an ax to grind, Zoltan, please take it elsewhere.

How can there be clear communication if a professor is trying to accomodate three different types of communication in a class?

Yes, I know learning ASL is simplistic, but it’s always been effective. I am not saying that studnets have to learn it overnight, and I support their right for services sucha s oral interpreters as they are learning the language. I understand completely. I even support professors who are new and want to learn ASL as they go along. I only would request that they use an interpreter.

What bothers me, is that I’m seeing this attitude “I don’t need to learn ASL! You accomodate ME” among some populations at Gallaudet”. That really confuses me. If you are at Gallaudet, you should learn ASL? No? Why are you here, then?

Gallaudet advertises as an ASL using university, and that is why ASLers like myself attended. We welcome other deaf people, who are just as deaf as we are, no matter what communication method they use, to mingle and learn ASL and learn more about themselves. I think this is a wonderful opportunity, that you gain a lot by learning ASL and becoming part of the ASLer community, not just the generic deaf community.

It’s frustrating to me to have someone come in using simcom and become all upset because the majority uses/is learning/wants to learn ASL.

Maybe it’s just me, but I do beleive ASL is superior over simcom, and every single person who has learned ASL has agreed with me on this. Why do they feel the need to stay with simcom if they are at Gallaudet? If they want to use simcom in their personal life, no problem. I can even use simcom right back with you if that’s your choice. But to force your choice on a whole class is not justified. (i.e. demmaning the professor to use simcom when the majority wants ASL)

I know I’m biased. I love ASL, I teach ASL, and I want everybody to learn and appreciate it. I’ve been down the other route (simcom/Signed English/PSE), and never did I really feel free expressing myself until I learned ASL, and I want others to be open to it too. It frustrates me when I see that attitude that simcom/english-like systems are superior to ASL. That is a sympton of internalized audism, and I would like to see people break through that.

ASL is a great social pattern to communicate with certain deafs. I have trouble believing if ASL is truly effectively in education.

I watched how ASL inteprets an individual differently. I wonder if we communicate all on the same level. The problem with ASL at Gally I viewed, some students are from other countries, some are from different states and they have different signs for a word. They learn, diffuse, channel the language. Every year, every semester you have a new signs in ASL.

Learning ASL should be a choice in school. Im sorry to say that I am oral and did not learn to sign until I was in the 5th grade, it backfired all my studies trying to catch up learning signs in a non-mainstream class. when I went to college, i went back to oral, some sign and cart. Truthfully, I do love to sign when I mingle with other deafs, but on an educational level I believe there are another options to help the deafs in classroom when a professor lecture on a subject. Sadly it depends on the reading level of a deaf individuals which can reflect their congintion ASL skills.

Technology is not here to takeover, but here to help us. I haven’t decide if I want a cochlear implants yet. I am waiting for the new improve implants with less surgical time. Captions in classroom and on campus could benefit the most to be sure the message is equally distributed and not hersay or rumors. The cueds, oral, audism, asl, pse would all get along if that the case.

The key thing here is whatever mode of communication that makes YOU comfortable. Not about how other people’s communication choices that make YOU uncomfortable. Respect goes both ways when it comes to accomodation.

Nobody is right in this except that there ought to be clear communication channels between persons and parties.

True. But…Asl isn’t really English. Doing lots and lots of reading can help improve your congition skills in what we say or do.

I didn’t have a choice when my parents switch accommodation until I went to college. Everyone is not doing anything right. However, we have the ability to SEE and have the power to change in what we do.

Trust me, finding a job is sooo much harder these days for deaf and hispanic community because they don’t have the proper English skill.

Therefore the standards at Gallaudet University MUST be increased forcing Deaf residential schools to improve their end of the product result.

Bottom line, competition will keep getting more competitive every year. If we don’t raise the educational standards (English, Math, reading comprehension, the sciences) what Gallaudet will be doing is hurt those that come in but only to graduate against an extremely competitive world. None of this Affirmative Action thing if you’re thinking of hinging your bets on it so much. Prove your worth first by having the demonstrable skills in the first place.

When three people are getting together and using three different systems of communication, it is not “clear communication”. In a classroom, it is important that all users be able to understand each other. Hence, the solution? Everybody uses ASL. No, I don’t mean you have to know it overnight. It takes time and patience to learn a new language, including ASL. It takes time and effort and I fully support the students getting their needs accomodated while they are in the process of acquisition of ASL.

But to go in a classroom where everybody uses ASL and demand that THEY communicate with you in cued speech/simcom is unreasonable.

You are welcome to use whatever language/method you want to use out of the classroom.

True. But the problem doesn’t start at Gallaudet. It begin the moment we lose our hearing. Our parents and teachers debate for the best accommodation now instead to think the hostile future we may face. Not all deaf go to Gally, but they are facing the same problem gally student may be facing. Once again, technology is not here to take over. Change is good. I have too many friends go off to graduate school, still do not have a job. They go to graduate school to further advance themself or to prove themselve but still have no job. Its is Affirmative Action because the society still discriminate against the deafs.

I been working at a company for 7 seven years, no promotion of any kind. It runs by my father and uncle. It’s unbelieveable that in 7 years not one other deaf person is hired in the company. Arrgghhhh!!!!

Ah, but what right is ASL the official language of Gallaudet as you are saying? None whatsoever. It is simply a college for the deaf and I don’t notice that Congress has provided funds for the Deaf to use only “their” language at Gallaudet. This would be contrary to the congressional attitude of inclusiveness.

“But to go in a classroom where everybody uses ASL and demand that THEY communicate with you in cued speech/simcom is unreasonable.”

Not everybody that go to class are fluent in ASL nor are they proficient. A person with ASL can understand a person using SimCom. And vice versa to a varying degree. But communicate they can. A person who is learning or is weak on ASL do not have the same equal access and participation in classrooms (with ASL-using teacher) as those who are proficient in ASL. It’s nearly akin to a Deaf person going to a hearing college for the first time and pretend to know what’s going on by reading the hearing students and teacher’s lips throughout his/her first, second, or even the third year.

WS, what you’re saying is not as easy as it sounds nor does it solve all of the communication access issues, either.

Yes, you are absolutely right. A person entering a classroom, who is not fluent in ASL does not have the same equal access and/or participation. Which is why I advocate the use of support services. I have no issue with students getting what they need to be accomodated, until they are at the point where they can sign fluently enough, if possible.

What are we arguing about here? What exactly are we disagreeing on here? Students are welcome to use any accomodations they need. I am NOT disputing that.

I just think that ASL should be valued more than it is. I just feel it should be the “formal” language of Gallaudet, on equal footing with English. ASL was created by deaf people! It is a very important, unique part of our community and heritage.

Why anybody wants to put ASL on the same level as simcom and cued speech is beyond my understanding. Simcom, cued speech and all those other systems are not fully developed languages, and they are systems that have been imposed upon us. ASL came from our minds, our hearts and bodies.

I’m not saying those systems are intristically bad. I just believe that people benefit more using/learning ASL than those other systems.

I’ve been there - preASL and postASL, and it has been a great boon to my education and growth as a person. I want other students to have the same experience.

Communication preferences are fine, but what I am seeing is a resistance to learning ASL because of a negative cultural association, and that’s a shame. I hate seeing that happening.

What I hate is seeing the constant marginalization against those who don’t live up to YOUR expectations.

Wildstarryskies, can you tell me more about why you feel ASL is not more valued than it is? I don’t think anyone is arguing that ASL is not a language here. I too happen to feel that ASL is an integral part of Deaf Culture. I love ASL, just as you do. You’re right that sim-com, cued speech, and other systems are not languages. Just because they are not true languages does not mean they don’t have a functional purpose for a great many people. For some of us, they were not “forced” on us. It’s also true that deaf children are not given the choice as to language of instruction. Information about ASL may not shared with parents, who out of ignorance may be opposed to ASL in any case just because of the stigma associated with deafness and sign language. I dispute your contention that more people have benefited from learning ASL than those other systems. That was *your* experience, but not everyone will have *your* experience. You mentioned resistance to ASL because of a negative cultural association. Who is it that has this negative cultural association? Hearing people? Deaf people? Or just uninformed people? I’d like to relate this back to Bobby’s original post about standpoints. Your standpoint favors ASL, and so does mine. Even JKF favors ASL. She said learning ASL and about the deaf community and culture made her whole. That’s exactly my experience too. Anyone who doesn’t know ASL or deaf people will be coming from THEIR standpoint, and an intrinsic part of that standpoint will be the value of hearing and speech. No wonder those pressing for the rights of deaf children to be exposed to ASL from birth have monumental task before them.

I have been reading a lot of comments throughout different blogs. People have been saying things such as “ASL is not a real language, grow up and deal with the real world”, etc..

I’m not speaking of you specifically. I’m just speaking of a general resistance that I have seen, this attitude that ASL is not as important to “the real world”, whatever it is.

I do think it’s very telling that ASL is not mentioned ANYWHERE on the Gallaudet website. Not in it’s mission, its vision statement, and the offical policy establishes ASL as consisting of “speaking while signing” and “english word order”, which is a wildy inaccurate potrayal.

If ASL is so valued, then why are students not required to take classes in it? I don’t see ASL linguistics being required, yet, students take two years of foreign languages and three/four of English. Why does JK feel that she has the right to say she is “fluent in ASL”, when she is not? If someone who was barely fluent in Spanish, they would not assert loudly that they are fluent in Spanish, as that would be disrespectful to the language itself. Simcom does not ASL make.

(I am not criticing her sign skills. I’m just criticzing her assesment of her sign skills which is misleading, and ultimately, insulting to those who have actually attained fluency.)

Whatever communication method you want to use, that’s fine. Nobody chooses their parents, after all. Mine taught me Signed English, and I do not have ONE iota of resentment towards them for that. I am grateful, in fact, that they made the best decision they could have made at the time.

I’m just glad I eventually learned ASL and was able to take my expressive (as in person, not in writing) skills up another level I could never have attained, using Signed English.

McConnell, I responded to your commment above, in another post. Scroll up and read it.

I don’t take kindly to being talked down to that way. The debate between you and I have ended.

CE, you expressed my sentiments exactly, gracefully so. Yet, marginalization towards the minority population on campus does exist. So, I seriously do question this whole “unity” thing that many protesters are pretending to espouse. It hasn’t changed much since then when I was a student at Gally.

Who initiated the “not deaf enough”? Go and dig for firsthand source.

Has there been any statement from the Math Department or any other department at Gallaudet pro or anti Jane? For example, I vaguely remember that the Linguistic Department signed a group letter anti-JKF. Any other examples? Math? History? English?

Zoltan, and you are no better, definitely. You resort to personal attacks, against David King, IKJ, and especially Jane Fernandes.

I think I speak for many that we are tired of your rattling on with the nonsense you pull out of your ass. Put that energy to positive use, such as seeking therapy, getting a job, etc.

Reading blogs and commenting obviously makes you a bitter man with some kind of psychological hatred of women in general.

When David or girlfriend openly threatened with physical mutilation in email group, do-do? I looked up do-do. Found good tips, yeah, like reporting to authorities, investigate behaviour. They do one hell of a good job! I am glad-glad. Smile-smile. David is out of picture, bully will be locked down soon. Bully has no place in intelligent company. Hankuss.

Calling an ant hill “Mt Everest” is going a bit too far IMHO.

Do I believe that Jane doesn’t have the right standpoint? I admit, I do imply that she may not. But the real focus is not me — it’s the community. What do YOU say?

And it’s not appropriate to reduce my whole article to a single point — “Not Deaf Enough.” As you know and can see, its much deeper than that; Standpoints can be a learned thing — as I mention, I’ve met hearing people with fully developed deaf standpoints.

Bobby, we know Gallaudet is well known for practicing elitism and favoritism based on the “holy trinity” - Deaf Family, Deaf School and Deaf ASL. I think there are deeper underlying issues that Deaf protesters are unwilling to acknowledge or admit here.

Correct. If you’re not from a deaf family, not from a deaf school, and don’t use ASL, you might as well be a minority at Gallaudet. The self-identified elite have their roots almost everywhere at Gallaudet and they are behind the protests. I would wager that most of the protest leaders are from deaf families.

Can you blame me if I confused your second sentence with your personal beliefs? The implication is there, and you did after all write it without any disclaimer of responsibility. Nonetheless, with your clarification of what you meant, it seems we are in agreement.

And Bobby, I am forced to reduce your blog to the issue of not being inclusive enough for the diversity of the deaf community. You recognize the subjective nature of the standpoint theory but fail to capitalize this, or focus on the diversity of deaf community. The implication therefore is that there is a singular deaf community. I am pointing out that, as proven by the variety of responses to your blog, that there is no coherent deaf community that provides a singular “developed deaf standpoint”. By describing a standpoint, and applying it to Jane, you are adding fuel to the fire, as I’ve stated before.

It would be far more interesting to put aside the Jane debacle, and to read a discussion of what is truly a “developed deaf standpoint” if it actually exists.

Actually, Ryan Commerson is from a hearing family, so is LaToya Plummer. Leah, I don’t know, but she did go to CSD-F/R, I think. Other leaders I’ve seen around campus, running things, setting things up - not all of them are from deaf families. I am not. Many of the posters I know personally on this thread who is supporting the protest are not from deaf families.

one person makes the protest wrong?

Oh please, don’t act as if you lack reading comprehension.

The people such as RLM, who make the protest invalid by giving up the moral high ground.

I support the right to protest, but dont do it in a way that causes other people harm. RLM wanted to block a parking deck to prevent other people from using it, also he was glad that people were arrested because it made the administation a Bre’r rabbit. Thats sick.

I have questioned this mob from the beginning, it is a good thing I feel justified in thinking that way.

Jeez, you (Johan) really make me laugh so hard when reading your comment regarding the adminstration as the “Brer’ Rabbit” .

You obviously NEVER read the classic Southern folkfore among the bondaged Africans (American slaves) which inspired them to outwit and outfox the masters and the oppressive system.

To correct the concept of “Brer’ Rabbit and the Tar Baby”. The adminstration would be the “Tar Baby”. We, the protestors would be “Brer’ Rabbit”.

You, Johan, would clearly understand how the tar trapped the powerful and fearsome creatures like dinosaurs. That’s what I am trying to point out.

The IKJ and JK adminstration are playing the protest as some kind of “chess game”. We kinda checkmate the adminstration with the incident of College Hall takeover.

The adminstration’s bulldozer trampled over students’ tent and hurted several students on physical means. One student got his toes real bloody.

The adminstration started the whole things, not us, protestors from the unjustifable arrest of Ryan Commerson to the bulldozing of students’ tent and physically hurt several students. Whose fault? Of course, that would be the adminstration.

*bow down in the manner of Mastero* Poof!

Others would say that the student protesters were rightfully removed from the gates in which they were blocking legitimate access. It’s not a chess game, but real life with real world consequences.

*blink*

RLM, do you even know what you are talking about? I am being completely serious. Have you read any of the literature of which the allusions you are using?
You don’t know what Orwellian is, and you dont know what the Tar baby was.

The Tar baby was to trap the Bre’r rabbit into getting into a fight and then get himself stuck even more so that he was an easy target for the people to kill.

The protestors are the Tar baby, you are trapping the admin into reacting and getting themselves stuck. Thats kind of the point if you want to bring an allusion. Using your way, it is the protest that is getting itself stuck and fights more to entap itself further when fighting the admin.

Please poof some more, you are hardly making any sense as it is, Maestro.
The school started it, yeah the school existed first. The protest to camp out and block gates was the students idea.

Don’t get me wrong here Maestro, if you had a valid reason to protest I would be behind you, but you dont.

As Anonymous points above, this is real life. You are using allusions and metaphors to make this entire thing seem grander than it really is.

If that admin is making this out to a chess game, then why are they still playing? What possible good does it do for them to further divide the student body. They want order restored. i am sure in your little mind this is all some game because you lose nothing if you dont win.

“If that admin is making this out to a chess game, then why are they still playing? What possible good does it do for them to further divide the student body.”

Money, power and control.

McConnell, You’re not hearing and understanding me. You keep accusing me of wanting to marginalize those who are not fluent in ASL.

That is not what I believe, nor is it my intention. I wanted to make that clear, that you are NOT hearing me.

And yes, it is a shame that the President-designate of Gallaudet University never took the time to learn ASL in any kind of formal manner.

It just gives me the impression she doesn’t think ASL is good enough for herself. She CAN sign better than this. I’ve met people who learned later in life than she did, but who tried and worked so hard, and now they sign so beautifully, even if they still have an “accent”.

I still firmly believe that ASL should be considered the scholary language of Gallaudet, on EQUAL footing to English.

wildstarryskies, I’d like to ask you about a tidbit I’ve read and asked about repeatedly but never got an answer. Is it true that Professor MJ Bienvenu tutored JKF in ASL and deaf culture? Talk about learning at the feet of the master. I’ve also been asking repeatedly about the fact that the ASL Department at Gallaudet unanimously voted to grant JKF tenure in that department. How the heck did that happen? No one is saying. And about her not signing better than she does… aren’t you being kind of harsh? Some people just have a knack for ASL, and others just don’t, despite years of immersion in the deaf community. Let me think of a good example: how about Dr. Diane Morton, good friend of Dr. Donalda Ammons? Just cut JKF some slack, OK? Even most deaf people will never be able to sign as beautifully as MJ Bienvenu or Ella Mae Lentz. They are mistresses of the language, not the norm. Just because JKF doesn’t sign perfect ASL does not mean she does not kiss-fist the language as much as anyone. Likewise, some people can do sim-com quite well, and others don’t. Sim-com is not universally badly done. It depends on the signer and how well he or she uses ASL concepts. While I respect people who have made a formal study of ASL linguistics, to say one can’t sign and speak at the same time ignores the diglossic nature of ASL.

I wouldn’t be so harsh on JK if she didn’t have the gall to go out there and say, “I am fluent in ASL”.

I understand that not everybody can reach a certain level of proficiency, and I also understand that years of study just might not make much of an impact.

In that point, I give in to you. You are correct, just because she doesn’t sign ASL doesn’t mean she doesn’t embrace it. You are absolutely correct. I will admit I errered on that point. After all, Dr. Stokoe was not fluent himself. And yes, some people are better at sim-com than others. I’ve met people who used sim-com and did it very well, and others who used it and did just terribly.

However, her statements that she is fluent in ASL is egregious at best. If she can’t be honest with others about her ability to use ASL…. ? Does she believe what she is signing is ASL? If so, then she does not have much knowledge of what ASL is, does she? If she really supports ASL then why has she not set up stricter standards during her time as Provost? Why did she lie to the BOT and say that she met many times with the SBG about the Audism Mandates?

And yes, you can sign and speak at the same time. However, it causes a signal degradation. I’ve seen many people do this- they sign one word, stop, speak a word, and then back again. Then if you use one sign like “kiss-fist”, you have to stop and speak “i really love it very much, in a fun, casual way” if you want to interpret it correctly in ASL.
Most people who use sim-come end up saying four words and signing 1. I’ve seen it happen many times.

Er…they’re slaming and labeling JKF as an “audist” or for practicing “audism”.

You can infer that from the GUFSSA site that the protest is also about English in so many ways in how you want to read it:

“Audism is a form of practice that elevates English and other spoken languages and de-values American Sign Language(ASL) and other signed languages.”

http://news.gufssa.com/2006/10.....from-ccsd/

So?

Nobody here is saying that ASL is MORE IMPORTANT than English. I don’t see anyone saying, “JK has really great English! We should throw her out because she has great English!”

Nobody here is saying that we should all forget about English and focus only on ASL.

Who is practicing english audism (I don’t know how better to put it)? Certainly not anyone on this thread.

And no, don’t bring up some phantom strawman deafie who complains that it’s a deaf world and we need to ignore English. They’re idiots, and even the protesters agree with that.

If the protesters weren’t educated and literate, they wouldn’t be involved in the first place. They can write and are fluent in English. I know the student leaders certainly can.

We’ve been discussing back and forth for ages, using English on this thread. When have I complained that I have to use English?

Once again, so?

p.s. we’re talking about English here, not simcom or english-like sign systems. Those are not languages. They don’t count.

I really don’t follow your line of reasoning here. I’ve been looking for your phantom english audist, but I don’t see it.

May not be enough but its a pretty good start don’t you think? And the diversity plan is only one element of the work to be done.
Not sure exactly where you are going with your second paragraph??

I’m not trying to put words in anyone’s mouths here, but I think Anonymous is trying to say that it’s a deaf societal problem which is magnified at Gallaudet.

Many of us Deaf aren’t being educated well. That’s very well-documented. And it’s harsh to put all of the educational woes solely on JKF’s shoulders. Much of the blame lies with the deaf community’s lack of positive proactivism. We’re not visible enough and we’re not presenting a face to the culture and community that hearing parents would find welcoming.

The blame also lies with the hearing parents, because they don’t do enough research. They automatically believe what the audiologist tells them. They hear what they want to hear many times.

We’re also not being proactive about the abysmal secondary educational system, which shares much of the blame as well. The educators don’t expect enough from their deaf students, and oftentimes, their sign skills is just plain outright wretched. So how can the deaf students learn if their parents don’t sign, and their teachers can barely sign?

So now, then where do those under-educated, under-valued deaf students go? They go to Gallaudet.

Like mcconnell said: It’s everyone’s mess. Everyone’s.

~ Deaf Pundit

Thank you Deaf Pundit. Very well said. This is why I have a problem with this protest. It sure looks like JKF is being made responsible for all the woes of the deaf community (at least at Gally). Where have all of these alum, faculty and staff been for the last 18 years since IKJ took over? I know most of the current students haven’t been on campus for more than 1-4 years, but even some of the older of them and certainly many of the faculty, alums, and staff have been there plenty long enough to have fought for change long before now. If they haven’t fought for solutions to these problems before what gives them the right to suddenly hold one and only one individual accountable for the lack of progress. And I say again that individual has been spearheading the effort to develop a plan to deal with these problems. Heck, one of the principal faculty agitators (MJ) was involved in that process and bailed out on it in mid stream. What kind of leadership does that represent? Come on folks lets deal with the fact that we have all been part of the problem and get behind someone who is actively trying to do something about it.

*sigh*

Read my answers. You know what I said and what I mean.

And yes, if students sign simcom in the classroom, it’s fine. They’re not fluent in ASL so they should hae the opportunity to communicate the best they can. However, they cannot expect others to always understand what they are signing, or to understand what the professor is signing.

I’m only saying the PROFESSOR should sign ASL, and the students themselves should strive to sign ASL too.

AGREE, the professors SHOULD sign fluent ASL. The HOH or late-learning-signers, can simply ask for an interpreter (and hopefully really brush up on their skills). Saves on so much heartache.

Or geez, why not have the students choose teachers by sign style? Same as hearing people hear that a foreign teacher has a thick accent, they can choose to attend this class or not.

That would at least be some sort of compromise, but it’s not fair to be in a class (or classes) at a major school that professes to be there for your specific abilities, yet not meet your specific needs.