Was the 2004 Election Stolen? Rolling Stone Article.
By Bobby Cox on Fri 2 Jun 2006 |
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I am now absolutely convinced, (as opposed to just convinced) that if it wasn’t for Republican tampering, that the Presidential election in 2004 would have had a different outcome. What convinced me was this long and very well-researched Rolling Stone article written by Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
The main focus of the article is on Ohio and the many, many, many voting irregularities that occured there. Survey experts and other academics have expressed serious doubt about the validity of the elections there. In fact, some contested elections in third world countries had better validity than the ones in Ohio!
Mind you, my political affilations lie with the Democrats/Independents, but this goes way, way beyond partianship. The survey expert who analyzed the Ohio results is/was an Bush-supporter and he has indicated shock and disgust at the results.
In almost every case, Republican areas in Ohio had SERIOUS ISSUES with their voting. Democrats were turned away, denied, or outright prevented from voting. Voting machines were given to Republican areas and denied to Democratic areas. It’s all deeply and devastatingly documented in Kennedy’s article. Read it and then come back here and comment about it. I wonder what you think.
I really wish that the United States was better than what it is now. As each year goes by, my disgust of my own country grows.
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32 Comments
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I do believe that there were election irregularities in Ohio and I’ll never forget the CEO of Diebold, who engineered the electronic voting machines (many of those machines have been found to be faulty) promising to deliver Ohio to the Bush campaign.
Nothing is preventing you from emigrating to a country you think fits your ideologies better :)
Time to move on.
Did you even read the Rolling Stone article?
Noelle, I doubt Sacha even read the article. His/her post says it all. Here’s my favorite quote: “The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear.” by Herbert Sebastien Agar.
Indeed.
Sacha, I hardly think this is about ideology.
A person’s vote is the fundamental building block of a democracy. This is about preservation of the vote in a country that’s supposed to be all about democracy. Anybody should be outraged that democracy was denied so blatantly to American citizens in Ohio. If Kerry won amid voter irregularities in Pennsylvania, I’d be outraged as well.
The right to vote CANNOT be a partisan issue, but it has been turned into one. Read the article, if you haven’t done so.
You win the most pointless post ever!
Here’s a prize. Congratulations!
On a serious note, next time, try to challenge or debate with the message itself, not ‘attacking’ the blogger. I know, I know it’s nearly impossible for any Bushie conservatives to challenge the message or substantiality of it but at least, try.
So you would like the message to be challanged! Please do allow me. Everytime I read a post such as this it reminds me how out of touch the American People actually are in regards to politics.
First although we live in a democracy the United States is a Republic and as such the votes were NOT stolen. I will grant that there were PROBABLY some voting irregularities in the voting methods and counts across the country and even in Ohio, however I will not accept the blame to be placed entirely on the Republican party or eveb Bush, thats just too simple of a scapegoat.
Although the popular votes were considered off it was actually OUR elected officials who went and cast the votes that put Bush in office and even after a re-count it was then left to the Supreme Court to decide the matter.
This was SIMPLY our government at work, following the procedures envisioned by our founding fathers and carried forward by our constitution.
The process itself could even be considered flawed, hmm sounds familiar almost like the process that placed Fernandes at the helms of Gallaudet. We could argue a flawed process an many many do disagree with our electorate process and it possibly could use an overhaul to bring it inline with the 21st century.
However to place blame on an entire party and to claim corruption is no better than camping out in tents in front of Gallaudet and demanding a new leader.
A democracy allows you to voice those opinions a republic guarantees those opinions are heard!
Wow. That RS article is pretty damning. The media should do something about this, and we need to force Congress to investigate this.
There a guy who is being charged for false information to get Ohio to win for President Bush. I knew something is up there thats why Kerry demanded investigate with voting system in Ohio.
There’s people at the highest level of government controlling things. Someone had to advise the president and it is not the president’s staff but someone who were chosen to keep america running. I know it is more like the “puppet masters” but we have no way of knowing. Any Bonesmen in here to tell us more?
I think this article (click here) echoes Bobby’s sentiments. No, talking about this is not going to change what happened in 2004, but with two important elections coming up in 2006 and 2008, both involving issues of greater significance and peril than whatever America has faced since 1776…things have got to change.
Since 1776?
Come on…
What about the War Between the States?
What about World War I?
What about World War II?
What about the Cold War?
Uh… Those wars happened AFTER 1776.
Thats the whole point… Adam said “both involving issues of greater significance and peril than whatever America has faced since 1776…” Christian was just pointing out a few events that were actually of greater significance SINCE 1776.
I think we would have alot less confusion in this world of ours if people paid attention to details!
Amen, Bobby! This is the best thing to happen to the movement in a while. If we can spread the word about this article to as many people as possible, including our Senators and members of Congress (1-888-355-3588 is the Capital Switchboard) we can move this ball a little farther down the road. This lunatic President has got to go!
Wow, so stunning that only the Rolling Stone had to publish it!
Did anyone note that Bobby Kennedy, Jr. wrote this article? Anyone reminded about Jack’s antics in Cook County, Illinois in 1960? At least Nixon was man enough not to contest the obvious election tampering for the sake of the country.
Besides, reading this is just like taking a course on sobriety taught by Ted Kennedy… or driving classes for that matter.
u realize u’re attacking the article, ridor-style? in other words, ad hominem. c’mon, refute the article w/ FACTS.
That’s the point. Look at the source.
Also, its a rehash of everything that has been said in the past 2 years. Why isn’t this mentioned in the NY Times, Washington Post, the Wall Street Journal? Because this is nothing new.
Get. Over. It.
While it may be a rehash, there is value in collecting the different threads of this issue and presenting it in one cohesive story. Nail, after nail, after nail in the coffin, so to speak.
Just because its nothing new, doesn’t mean that it needs more press coverage.
Saying Get. Over. It. Does not even pretend to resolve the problems posed by the irregularities in Ohio and the lack of confidence presented by electronic voting machines, especially Diebold. There have been several examples made by hackers that Diebold machines can be easily manipulated electronically to show whatever desired results they want. While Diebold is on the record as calling these electronic holes as being insignificant, various states have expressed concern about that.
You cannot have a healthy republic when there is a continual stream of distrust of electronic machines and vote-tampering as well as poll results that appear contrary to poll counting.
Saying Get.Over.It. Doesn’t resolve those.
As others have said, ad hominem attacks, without more, do not add anything to this discourse.
Nixon, election tampering? Ummm Just exactly which election is that, please DO enlighten us!
Alas, another ad hominem attack from a Repub who hasn’t read the article, and continues to confuse RFK Jr. with his uncle. This can be easily ignored.
Comment:
Ah….never mind….;-)
Can someone please tell me how exit polls have become accurate enough to predict the voting outcome when multiple variables come into play that can easily disrupt the prediction?
There are many reasons why exit polls will not match voters turnout as reported in the Edison/Mitofsky Election System 2004 report prepared by the Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International. It’s the same report that RFK Jr. alluded to in his article praising Edison/Mitofsky exit polling results in Mexico and elsewhere but never mentioned in the E/M report that provided a caveat about exit polling results.
There’s more I can add but it’s long. Go here.
http://tinyurl.com/znttb
All I can say is that RFK’s exit polling musing is all wet.
Ah, but he is not saying that exit polls are accurate to predict an election. The PATTERN of errors in the exit polls is the interesting part here. Exit polls consistently and statistically were skewed, across the United States.
As you said “multiple variables come into play that can easily disrupt the prediction.” The disruption here (as said by the article) is the Bush-supporters’ manipulation of election data.
That’s an opinion, not a fact (re: manipulation of election data). Again, he IS saying that exit polls are accurate. You just said so yourself by citing the “pattern of errors” as the source of accuracy as what RFK is alluding to.
E/M report says:
“There were 26 states in which the estimates produced by the exit poll data overstated the vote for John Kerry by more than one standard error, and there were four states in which the exit poll estimates overstated the vote for George W. Bush by more than one standard error.”
Now, if you say what’s true about the “fishy” exit polling results, then we should be focusing on John Kerry exit polling results!!
Here’s another liberal website (salon.com) saying that Robert Kennedy, Jr. is full of it.
http://www.salon.com/news/feat.....index.html
What you choose to believe says a lot about who you are, apparently.
He has also been debunked on NPR and Mother Jones. Not exactly right-wing media organizations.
This is not the first time Bobby Kennedy, Jr. has been caught with his pants down fabricating, distorting, and outright lying about whatever he writes about, the environment or the 2004 election.
Thanks for the other perspectives. Can you also provide the NPR and Mother Jones links as well (if applicable).
Like with anything in life, there are always risks for beliving a perspective. Perhaps I bought Kennedy’s spiel hook, line, and sinker… and if he’s been debunked, then so be it!
Debate is good.
see this link;
http://www.boingboing.net/2006.....n_the.html
NPR and Mother Jones came out before the RS article came out so don’t think they debunked the Kennedy JR article right afterward. OK?
It does not take a genius to know that there is something going on. How could the republicans have such a stronghold on government affairs when their own ideals and morals are suspect?
This is a story that never got the chance to be published in mainstream media channels. It is a long read, but reveals conspiracies way way up in the yazoo.
A staged suicide, “lost” crime scene photos, a call from a top official in Florida to stop the investigation, oppression of justice, etc…
(The “lost” crime scene photos appear in the below link. It is somewhat legal because the police claimed that it was lost, so the photos are not bound by law enforcement protocols).
NOTE: I must warn you that there are rather graphic photos. Search for “Lemme” to find the article
http://www.insider-magazine.co.....arfare.htm
please guys, for your own sakes. for your own well being. read all of the following:
http://www.mysterypollster.com.....right.html
pls read all 4 parts. there is some math, but keep plugging away, ok. and stop trying to concoct fantasies in your head and then living inside them. pls look at and grasp the real world, and try to change that. you’ll never succeed if you cant even grasp what the real problems are (with the dems), and continue to listen to kooks like kennedy who dumbs you down with junk science, junk statistical sampling psyco-babble, and out right fanatsy. pls guys. you’re better than he thinks. smarter. show him.